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Old 06-24-2013, 07:09 AM
 
1,347 posts, read 810,071 times
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Mayor Lowlife, er. Bloomberg, should read this article too so he can see why he is such a complete zero. But then again, dictators who change laws so that they can run for office over and over are usually not much interested in facts. Anyway, this situation was a nice example of how having conceal and carry - the right to carry personal firearms - is such an important one:

Man tries to rob people in line for LeBron James sneakers, is killed - CNN.com

Man tries to rob people in line for LeBron James sneakers, is shot and killed

Just wonderful news, I wish I was there to have watched it.
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Old 06-24-2013, 07:41 AM
 
4,743 posts, read 3,732,367 times
Reputation: 2482
Here is the irony here. Perhaps it is a hallmark of missing crucial steps in critical thinking (you are not born to think/reason, it must be learned).


Lets break it down. . .hypoethical case.. but illustrates why this is a bad thought process and bloomberg would ignore unless backed up

1) concel carry law goes into place
2) 50 unintended injuries/fatalities due to guns firing in holsters/etc
3) 100 unintended injuries/fatalities due to abuse/fights/spouses/etc
4) 1 case of a man getting robbed


There is no way for us to argue that the above link makes an argument for concealed carry without understanding the holistic picture. When a concealed carry law goes in: 1) do more people carry guns 2) how many more accidents 3) how many more unjustified shootings (fights) 4)how many defense shootings 5) impact to overall homicide rate

In another way. . .
I'm not going to poke holes in the titanic, just because your cabin is warm.
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Old 06-24-2013, 08:48 AM
 
Location: Va. Beach
6,396 posts, read 4,409,268 times
Reputation: 2278
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisFromChicago View Post
Here is the irony here. Perhaps it is a hallmark of missing crucial steps in critical thinking (you are not born to think/reason, it must be learned).


Lets break it down. . .hypoethical case.. but illustrates why this is a bad thought process and bloomberg would ignore unless backed up

1) concel carry law goes into place
2) 50 unintended injuries/fatalities due to guns firing in holsters/etc
3) 100 unintended injuries/fatalities due to abuse/fights/spouses/etc
4) 1 case of a man getting robbed


There is no way for us to argue that the above link makes an argument for concealed carry without understanding the holistic picture. When a concealed carry law goes in: 1) do more people carry guns 2) how many more accidents 3) how many more unjustified shootings (fights) 4)how many defense shootings 5) impact to overall homicide rate

In another way. . .
I'm not going to poke holes in the titanic, just because your cabin is warm.
here is the real irony...
Without any realistic information of the actual numbers or cases in # 2 above, or the availability of some other weapon making # 3 above totally irrelevant concerning guns, and the fact that #4 is simply one of over 2.5 million cases each year of a legally armed citizen preventing or stopping a crime, someone wants to prevent # 1, a concealed carry law.
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Old 06-24-2013, 08:49 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,492 posts, read 51,399,522 times
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The people responsible enough to obtain a concealed carry permits for a hand guns simply do not have their gun "firing in holsters etc", do not use their guns to shoot spouses, and, if one armed robber is shot by a concealed carry gun owner the entire program is justified because a violent criminal was eliminated from society.

I believe we will have a more law abiding and safer society if more citizens obtained a CCP and carried their guns whever they has a legal right to be. I would like to see the Federal government force the states to recognize any State's CCP just as they do Driver's Licenses. I see no reason one state's permit should be denied in any other state.
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Old 06-24-2013, 08:55 AM
 
4,743 posts, read 3,732,367 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkatt View Post
here is the real irony...
Without any realistic information of the actual numbers or cases in # 2 above, or the availability of some other weapon making # 3 above totally irrelevant concerning guns, and the fact that #4 is simply one of over 2.5 million cases each year of a legally armed citizen preventing or stopping a crime, someone wants to prevent # 1, a concealed carry law.
I am ONLY pointing out that the argument pro-concealed carry is not made with 1 cherry picked event.

I am NOT making the argument in anyway pro or con on concealed carry, just showing the data needed to make any assessment



Yet I stand by the argument, a cherry picked event in its own does not prove or disprove the concealed carry issue.

Though the statics on guns and their risks seem pretty clear. . .but that isn't the point here. The point is the person made a cherry picked fact, and I pointed out why logically you need more data to make an assessment.


Oh, and I call BS on the 2.5 million number. Thats been discredited 8 ways to sunday.

We need to give the researchers the freedom to understand this information, regardless of how much the NRA wants to prevent scientists/research.
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Old 06-24-2013, 08:57 AM
 
4,743 posts, read 3,732,367 times
Reputation: 2482
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
The people responsible enough to obtain a concealed carry permits for a hand guns simply do not have their gun "firing in holsters etc", do not use their guns to shoot spouses, and, if one armed robber is shot by a concealed carry gun owner the entire program is justified because a violent criminal was eliminated from society.

Now THAT is perhaps the most far reaching statement ever made in this argument. Because you had a license, your smart enough not to discharge by accident?

By that right, we could prevent every traffic fatality by improving our license structure!


and by that right, no policeman eVER discharges a weapon on accident, because accidents don't happen.

Give me a break, the above is wishful thinking at its best.
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Old 06-24-2013, 09:04 AM
 
Location: In your head, rent free
14,377 posts, read 7,710,249 times
Reputation: 7280
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisFromChicago View Post
Now THAT is perhaps the most far reaching statement ever made in this argument. Because you had a license, your smart enough not to discharge by accident?

By that right, we could prevent every traffic fatality by improving our license structure!


and by that right, no policeman eVER discharges a weapon on accident, because accidents don't happen.

Give me a break, the above is wishful thinking at its best.
There is no such thing as an accidental discharge of a firearm. When children are shot by a firearm in the home it's not an accident, it's a failure of a parent(s) in securing their firearm. When someone carrying a firearm drops it or leaves it in a bathroom stall it's not an accident, it's someone incorrectly carrying or handling their firearm.
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Old 06-24-2013, 09:12 AM
 
Location: San Diego, CA
10,582 posts, read 8,286,139 times
Reputation: 4158
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadisonR View Post
Mayor Lowlife, er. Bloomberg, should read this article too so he can see why he is such a complete zero. But then again, dictators who change laws so that they can run for office over and over are usually not much interested in facts. Anyway, this situation was a nice example of how having conceal and carry - the right to carry personal firearms - is such an important one:

Man tries to rob people in line for LeBron James sneakers, is killed - CNN.com

Man tries to rob people in line for LeBron James sneakers, is shot and killed

Just wonderful news, I wish I was there to have watched it.
Actually, the way that Concealed Carry works best, is when no crime is committed and no shot is fired at all.

Like when a guy sees a bunch of people in line to buy something expensive (however useless), thinks about robbing them, but then considers:

"Hmm, concealed carry is allowed for everybody here. Most people don't carry anyway, even though it is. But a few might, so somebody in this crowd could have a gun. I don't weant to have to face that, so I'lll leave them all alone."

Concelaed carry has done its job, as it so often will. No crime, no threat, nobody gets hurt (or robbed), everybody lives happily ever after. Because Concealed Carry was allowed for everyone.

Of course, there might be a complete whacko somewhere who tries it anyway. But far fewer than if the crooks could be sure no one was carrying. And even the whacko will have less chance of trying it twice... like the guy in the article linked in the OP.
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Old 06-24-2013, 09:30 AM
 
377 posts, read 254,557 times
Reputation: 336
People who want to pay $180 for sneakers enjoy getting robbed.
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Old 06-24-2013, 09:38 AM
 
Location: San Diego, CA
10,582 posts, read 8,286,139 times
Reputation: 4158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omniscient1 View Post
People who want to pay $180 for sneakers enjoy getting robbed.
And women enjoy being raped. And were asking for it. Right?

Anyone else?
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