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Old 06-27-2013, 06:24 PM
 
Location: California
1,028 posts, read 1,013,639 times
Reputation: 818

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For the first time in my life I'm becoming concerned about immigration, but unlike 99% of other American's who have this concern, it isn't in regards to hispanics crossing the border illegally. Now I'm not saying that is illegal immigration is a non-issue, as I do support many of the latest initiatives to curb illegal immigration. However, people in my network aren't competing for jobs or housing with the latinos who cross over the border. It's the legal foreigners who come over and take pharmaceutical jobs, engineering jobs, real estate, medical jobs, etc. that I see as a greater detriment to middle and upperclass professionals. And in California, where housing is already a crunch and prices are always being driven up because of low inventory, it's the legal foreigners who are bidding against us for homes and investment properties that I view as threat, not the latino migrant workers who just rent.

I love diversity and I love visiting countries and having friends who are from different countries. But in this economy, I don't think we have the resources to share right now. In my cul de sac of five homes, only one other household is American, two are from Europe, and one household is from Mexico. How many Americans were outbid for those homes? How many Americans applied for the jobs they have and weren't accepted because the foreigners were chosen instead? Is this right?
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Old 06-27-2013, 07:00 PM
 
14,287 posts, read 7,902,677 times
Reputation: 10144
Here's the deal; you've got to start somewhere and at least you'd have some control with your vote over how many legal immigrants you allow in AND you can impose qualification standards of some kind, while allowing them to simply walk in the back door uninvited allows even the very worst to arrive within your midst.
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Old 06-27-2013, 07:05 PM
 
19 posts, read 17,967 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Surftown831 View Post
For the first time in my life I'm becoming concerned about immigration, but unlike 99% of other American's who have this concern, it isn't in regards to hispanics crossing the border illegally. Now I'm not saying that is illegal immigration is a non-issue, as I do support many of the latest initiatives to curb illegal immigration. However, people in my network aren't competing for jobs or housing with the latinos who cross over the border. It's the legal foreigners who come over and take pharmaceutical jobs, engineering jobs, real estate, medical jobs, etc. that I see as a greater detriment to middle and upperclass professionals. And in California, where housing is already a crunch and prices are always being driven up because of low inventory, it's the legal foreigners who are bidding against us for homes and investment properties that I view as threat, not the latino migrant workers who just rent.

I love diversity and I love visiting countries and having friends who are from different countries. But in this economy, I don't think we have the resources to share right now. In my cul de sac of five homes, only one other household is American, two are from Europe, and one household is from Mexico. How many Americans were outbid for those homes? How many Americans applied for the jobs they have and weren't accepted because the foreigners were chosen instead? Is this right?

Many of our liberal elected officials believe in giving away jobs they say americans won't do which include the jobs you mention. Our tax $$ are now subsidizing their college education for that purpose. To land good jobs. Most of the latino's in md are here illegally and although it is a felon to hire them its so allowed in md. We now known as the sanctuary state..
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Old 06-27-2013, 07:21 PM
 
1,519 posts, read 919,950 times
Reputation: 891
Let me state first that I am an immigrant. I came to the country to pursue a path of education that was not accessible to me in my home country. For me, the US is and was a land of opportunity. I pursued both my undergraduate and graduate education here - and received scholarships for the latter through a private institution.

As such, there was a tremendous financial investment bestowed onto me and I believe it makes sense that I repay this generosity by contributing to this nation.

That said, I do understand your concern - and I share it, particular in the health care industry. Thus, I see MANY med students who graduate with an incredible amount of debt. They have so much debt, that they simply cannot afford to become general practitioners if they ever hope to pay back their loans. These new M.D.'s start their life with $200,000 to $300,000 debt - JUST from their medical degree. You can add to that debt from their undergraduate programs...

These young people enter the workforce and have to compete with individuals who received their degrees (assuming international licensing/reciprocity of degree) for free or for next to nothing...

How can anyone compete when the local system creates such an incredible disadvantage?
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Old 06-27-2013, 07:36 PM
 
Location: California
1,028 posts, read 1,013,639 times
Reputation: 818
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuselage View Post
Let me state first that I am an immigrant. I came to the country to pursue a path of education that was not accessible to me in my home country. For me, the US is and was a land of opportunity. I pursued both my undergraduate and graduate education here - and received scholarships for the latter through a private institution.

As such, there was a tremendous financial investment bestowed onto me and I believe it makes sense that I repay this generosity by contributing to this nation.

That said, I do understand your concern - and I share it, particular in the health care industry. Thus, I see MANY med students who graduate with an incredible amount of debt. They have so much debt, that they simply cannot afford to become general practitioners if they ever hope to pay back their loans. These new M.D.'s start their life with $200,000 to $300,000 debt - JUST from their medical degree. You can add to that debt from their undergraduate programs...

These young people enter the workforce and have to compete with individuals who received their degrees (assuming international licensing/reciprocity of degree) for free or for next to nothing...

How can anyone compete when the local system creates such an incredible disadvantage?
How many Americans applied for the job you have now and didn't get it because you were chosen? Is that right? It's certainly not your fault. You played by the rules and did what you had to do to be successful. But as a nation, shouldn't we set up our laws to ensure jobs go to Americans first?
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Old 06-27-2013, 08:36 PM
 
48,526 posts, read 75,975,782 times
Reputation: 17833
No; legal immigration is done thru law which is much different than illegal by definition alone. Its done thru a specific process same has most countries. No there should be no preference I hiring less qualified Americans for jobs that other can better fill ;that is businesses choice and we have many Americans so hired in foreign countries.
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Old 06-27-2013, 09:24 PM
 
1,519 posts, read 919,950 times
Reputation: 891
Quote:
Originally Posted by Surftown831 View Post
How many Americans applied for the job you have now and didn't get it because you were chosen? Is that right? It's certainly not your fault. You played by the rules and did what you had to do to be successful. But as a nation, shouldn't we set up our laws to ensure jobs go to Americans first?
My profession is extremely specialized - requiring two Ph.D.'s and a bunch of other qualifications. Thus, the average American would not have been affected by me taking a job and there certainly simply were no other qualified applicants for any job I ever held. Alas, I am certainly an outlier - I was actively recruited by various universities with various incentives to pursue my studies with them and never had to apply for a job afterward.

Should jobs go to Americans first? No - jobs should go to those people first who are legally in this country. Otherwise you are bound to create an underclass - people who are here legally but have no fair chance of supporting themselves or their family.

In turn, you condemn their spouses and children to a life of poverty - with all the socio-economic perils that come with it, from living in high-crime areas to lack of proper education and health insurance.

Since these people still need to eat and live, you are forcing them to either commit crimes or to exclusively rely on welfare.

You now also manage to force Americans to either leave the country if they decide to marry a foreigner, or to forgo marriage/partnership with a foreigner altogether. For example, if a US citizen falls in love with a foreigner and wants to marry him, they must now rely on her income exclusively. If she becomes pregnant, she won't be able to work for a while and the family will face financial hardships in no time since her immigrant husband cannot compete fairly for a job.

Does that seem like a feasible and realistic solution to you? You would not just negatively affect legal immigrants, but you would disadvantage many Americans citizens and subsequently disenfranchise them. The societal cost would also be tremendous.

If you allow any legal immigration, you have no choice but to grant immigrants the same job opportunities.

Your only other option is to halt ALL immigration - but now you are faced with the problem of multi-national families that your policy would tear apart. Again, you would force Americans to abandon their nation in order to stay together with their spouses and children. I don't know about you, but to me this sounds not like an approach that is worth pursuing.

Last edited by Fuselage; 06-27-2013 at 09:51 PM..
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Old 06-27-2013, 09:39 PM
 
1,288 posts, read 2,126,714 times
Reputation: 749
There is and will be fierce competition with other people from other countries regardless ,through outsourcing and globalization. It's the reality of today's economy.

Being short sighted, it's of course better for Americans to have tons of low wages illegal immigrants to provide cheap labor, but looking at the long term, it's MUCH better for Americans and America to add highly educated immigrants who are productive, contribute to society and taxes, and less likely to become burden on society.

What are the chances that the children and grandchildren of these highly educated immigrants become welfare recipients, or burglarize your house? What are the chances that two generations later, their descendants become engineers, CEOs, doctors, business owners, accountants, etc. and pay huge chunk of cash into the tax system? Very likely.

Think about it.
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Old 06-27-2013, 09:56 PM
 
24,998 posts, read 20,078,416 times
Reputation: 11486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuselage View Post
My profession is extremely specialized - requiring two Ph.D.'s and a bunch of other qualifications. Thus, the average American would not have been affected by me taking a job and there certainly simply were no other qualified applicants for any job I ever held. Alas, I am certainly an outlier - I was actively recruited by various universities with various incentives to pursue my studies with them and never had to apply for a job afterward.

Should jobs go to Americans first? No - jobs should go to those people first who are legally in this country. Otherwise you are bound to create an underclass - people who are here legally but have no fair chance of supporting themselves or their family.

In turn, you condemn their spouses and children to a life of poverty - with all the socio-economic perils that come with it, from living in high-crime areas to lack of proper education and health insurance.

Since these people still need to eat and live, you are forcing them to either commit crimes or to exclusively rely on welfare.

You now also manage to force Americans to either leave the country if they decide to marry a foreigner, or to forgo marriage/partnership with a foreigner altogether. For example, if a US citizen falls in love with a foreigner and wants to marry him, they must now rely on her income exclusively. If she becomes pregnant, she won't be able to work for a while and the family will face financial hardships in no time since her immigrant husband cannot compete fairly for a job.

Does that seem like a feasible and realistic solution to you? You would not just negatively affect legal immigrants, but you would disadvantage many Americans citizens and subsequently disenfranchise them. The societal cost would also be tremendous.

If you allow any legal immigration, you have no choice but to grant immigrants the same job opportunities.

Your only other option is to halt ALL immigration - but now you are faced with the problem of multi-national families that your policy would tear apart. Again, you would force Americans to abandon their nation in order to stay together with their spouses and children. I don't know about you, but to me this sounds not like an approach that is worth pursuing.
I'm in that situation right now. Am I supposed to abandon my life here and go to Britain because I committed the crime of falling in love with, and soon marrying, a British citizen? Doesn't seem right to me, especially since she wants to live here more than I want to live in Britain. We already have a system in place that employers are supposed to certify that they could not find a suitable American to fill the job they are hiring for. It's up to USCIS to enforce those rules already written.
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Old 06-27-2013, 10:15 PM
 
1,288 posts, read 2,126,714 times
Reputation: 749
Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
I'm in that situation right now. Am I supposed to abandon my life here and go to Britain because I committed the crime of falling in love with, and soon marrying, a British citizen? Doesn't seem right to me, especially since she wants to live here more than I want to live in Britain. We already have a system in place that employers are supposed to certify that they could not find a suitable American to fill the job they are hiring for. It's up to USCIS to enforce those rules already written.
Ask your British girlfriend to move to US and marry you. Done!
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