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Old 07-02-2013, 04:01 PM
 
Location: Ohio
14,311 posts, read 12,569,286 times
Reputation: 19017

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Quote:
Originally Posted by KUchief25 View Post
The "choice" should be made together by the ones who concieved that child. Now I know that is lot to ask in today's world of folks running off shirking their responsibilities all across the land of ours. I would think it would be welcomed input if the father wanted to take part. It appears many just want them to go away and not surprisingly many do. Then are condemned and chastised for it by the same folks who think they have no say in it to begin with.
So they make the choice together.....what if one wants to abort and one doesn't want to abort?

WHO gets the deciding vote? The man or the woman?

Not a hard question, but apparently too hard for you.

 
Old 07-02-2013, 04:10 PM
 
Location: Ohio
14,311 posts, read 12,569,286 times
Reputation: 19017
Quote:
Originally Posted by wawa1992 View Post
Some women will miss the cut off trying to decide whether to have the abortion and may end up having to carry the fetus to full term. 1000 less abortions = 1000 lives saved.
Let's use that same tactic for guns too.

The harder we make it for people to get a gun.....equals less guns....equals more lives saved.
 
Old 07-02-2013, 04:33 PM
 
545 posts, read 326,210 times
Reputation: 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annie53 View Post
And here we go again. Who should get the deciding vote on abortion.....the man or the woman?

Of course a man can express his opinion.....but he doesn't get to make the final decision.....because he isn't the one who has to carry the pregnancy and take risks with his health.
And there it is, right there. See, you want the ultimate say, but not the responsibility. If she is the one that gets pregnant, then shouldn't she the one to guard against wanted ones the most? If a man gets a girl knocked up and he doesn't want it, We don't feel sorry for him, we tell him to suck it up and step up for the kid. But if a woman gets pregnant and don't want it, we tell her to run, don't walk to the nearest abortion clinic and scrape it out. And don't even dare question it or you hate her.

If she is the one to get pregnant, therefore has greater rights and say, then she should have greater responsibility in it. It's her body, so you should have sole say?. Then you should have sole responsibility in what happens to your body and that goes for pregnancies. That doesn't sound fair does it?. Well, like you said, life isn't fair.

Quote:
The woman is the one who has to physically incubate the child so she gets to make the choice. Is that not biology?
Now I am no doctor, but abortion isn't apart of any biology I am aware of.

Quote:
Women just can't walk into a drug store and buy the pill.....they need a prescription from an OB/GYN. Mine charges $180 just for the office call.....and then there is a separate charge for a PAP test on top of that.....a test doctors require women to have if they want the pill.....STD testing is also required.....$, $ and $. Of course, men don't think of these things....because they don't have a clue.

What happens during an abortion isn't rocket science either.....but some people want to require a "show and tell" session.....maybe that's what we need in sex ed too.....LOL
Walmart offering $9 Birth Control Pills

I have seen women on welfare and poor take the pill. When I used to work at a minimum wage job, a female coworker excused herself to take the pill. Condoms are just down the street at any 7-11. I have witnessed an entire family of girls come into a clinic I used to work in and get the patch with no problem. I doubt many females are having a hard time getting birth control but your anecdote is noted.

Quote:
You don't know that. Maybe the side effects would be a higher risk for blood clots or weight gain....common risks women face when they are on hormonal BC. Would men be willing to take risks like that? Hmmm? I don't think so.....they wanna play but they don't wanna pay. That is pretty obvious.
Please, how do men get women pregnant?. By sperm, so how do you control that from his end?. But affecting his sperm or testicles in some way, and risk curtailing his orgasms. That is pretty obvious. And they are many other forms of BC that isn't hormonal if women don't want to deal with the side effects of the pill. They have options here.

Quote:
Again....you are just bent out of shape because women get one more option than men do.....that's biology....and biology isn't fair.
Oh, I know that is unfair. I keep trying to point out that women want the ultimate say in the fate of the baby that is also his but also his own life. That they want options, not the responsibility of those options though. And I am not sure what you are trying to say here but are you calling that extra option abortion and then saying that's biology?. Again, not aware of any abortion being apart of any living thing's biology. What she has is human created procedures granted to her by society.

Quote:
Again....you are only guessing. But, you did make a valid point. You touched on the main reason so many men take the chance of being a father......they don't like using condoms. I guess that little extra bit of sensation is worth taking a chance on paying child support for 18 years. So much for personal responsibility from males. They want women to make all of the sacrifices when it comes to reproduction.
As if you are not guessing yourself?..That the reason men aren't for more bc is because it may make them fat?. Really?. And the reason so many men may take a chance at being a father is because we as a society keep marginalizing them. That we don't call it babies, just clumps of cells so why should he hold any value over it?. But that is for a different thread. And so much for personal responsibility , they want men to be at whatever whim they have, on whether or not it's a baby or a "fetus" and claim it's their "reproductive right" to do so. That you get the finally say on whether or not men should be fathers and whether or not the men would want to.

Quote:
"You complained about affirmative action....and that has helped women obtain equality in the workforce."
My point was that you keep yelling "life isn't fair". I was just pointing out that it's your said that push things like that to make things fair, but only when it's convenient for their agenda.

Quote:
More women are also paying alimony too. Women's equality is paying off for men.
Yes, relatively speaking things are shifting, by what?...5 or 10 percent?. That isn't some titanic shift you are making it out to be as if men are making out like bandits.

Quote:
Break the man's heart? Really? What do you think it is going to do to the women who is forced to carry a pregnancy against her will? She will suffer both physically and mentally....but I guess what women go through doesn't count.....as long as the man gets his way.
She could turn over custodial rights and support to the father....The child lives, the father gets his kid but that is too much to ask women to carry a kid to term, something our species have done since the dawn of time. You are acting like the pregnancy itself is some kind of horrific ordeal. If it was, none of us would be here. If you are scared to death of getting pregnant, that's your thing, good luck with that. And no one is saying the man should get his way, that his thoughts and opinion should count for something.

I am pro-choice, but like I said you don't want to hear that you may be ending a life, you don't want to hear that you may be hurting the father, you don't even want to hear you may be hurting yourself, you want to be told you are just scraping away a "clump of cells" and feel "empowered" by doing so. And anyone that question that "hates women".

Last edited by EricGold; 07-02-2013 at 04:43 PM..
 
Old 07-02-2013, 05:09 PM
 
Location: Ohio
14,311 posts, read 12,569,286 times
Reputation: 19017
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricGold View Post
And there it is, right there. See, you want the ultimate say, but not the responsibility. If she is the one that gets pregnant, then shouldn't she the one to guard against wanted ones the most? If a man gets a girl knocked up and he doesn't want it, We don't feel sorry for him, we tell him to suck it up and step up for the kid. But if a woman gets pregnant and don't want it, we tell her to run, don't walk to the nearest abortion clinic and scrape it out. And don't even dare question it or you hate her.

If she is the one to get pregnant, therefore has greater rights and say, then she should have greater responsibility in it. It's her body, so you should have sole say?. Then you should have sole responsibility in what happens to your body and that goes for pregnancies. That doesn't sound fair does it?. Well, like you said, life isn't fair.



Now I am no doctor, but abortion isn't apart of any biology I am aware of.



Walmart offering $9 Birth Control Pills



I have seen women on welfare and poor take the pill. When I used to work at a minimum wage job, a female coworker excused herself to take the pill. Condoms are just down the street at any 7-11. I have witnessed an entire family of girls come into a clinic I used to work in and get the patch with no problem. I doubt many females are having a hard time getting birth control but your anecdote is noted.



Please, how do men get women pregnant?. By sperm, so how do you control that from his end?. But affecting his sperm or testicles in some way, and risk curtailing his orgasms. That is pretty obvious. And they are many other forms of BC that isn't hormonal if women don't want to deal with the side effects of the pill. They have options here.



Oh, I know that is unfair. I keep trying to point out that women want the ultimate say in the fate of the baby that is also his but also his own life. That they want options, not the responsibility of those options though. And I am not sure what you are trying to say here but are you calling that extra option abortion and then saying that's biology?. Again, not aware of any abortion being apart of any living thing's biology. What she has is human created procedures granted to her by society.



As if you are not guessing yourself?..That the reason men aren't for more bc is because it may make them fat?. Really?. And the reason so many men may take a chance at being a father is because we as a society keep marginalizing them. That we don't call it babies, just clumps of cells so why should he hold any value over it?. But that is for a different thread. And so much for personal responsibility , they want men to be at whatever whim they have, on whether or not it's a baby or a "fetus" and claim it's their "reproductive right" to do so. That you get the finally say on whether or not men should be fathers and whether or not the men would want to.



My point was that you keep yelling "life isn't fair". I was just pointing out that it's your said that push things like that to make things fair, but only when it's convenient for their agenda.



Yes, relatively speaking things are shifting, by what?...5 or 10 percent?. That isn't some titanic shift you are making it out to be as if men are making out like bandits.



She could turn over custodial rights and support to the father....The child lives, the father gets his kid but that is too much to ask women to carry a kid to term, something our species have done since the dawn of time. You are acting like the pregnancy itself is some kind of horrific ordeal. If it was, none of us would be here. If you are scared to death of getting pregnant, that's your thing, good luck with that. And no one is saying the man should get his way, that his thoughts and opinion should count for something.

I am pro-choice, but like I said you don't want to hear that you may be ending a life, you don't want to hear that you may be hurting the father, you don't even want to hear you may be hurting yourself, you want to be told you are just scraping away a "clump of cells" and feel "empowered" by doing so. And anyone that question that "hates women".
Well, Eric.....how would you like things to work if you had your way?

Do you want to go back to the "good old days" when the men went to work and the women stayed home and had 5 to 10 kids? Back to the days when if you got a girl in trouble you had to marry her and make the best of it?

What do you want?
 
Old 07-02-2013, 05:14 PM
 
545 posts, read 326,210 times
Reputation: 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annie53 View Post
Well, Eric.....how would you like things to work if you had your way?

Do you want to go back to the "good old days" when the men went to work and the women stayed home and had 5 to 10 kids? Back to the days when if you got a girl in trouble you had to marry her and make the best of it?

What do you want?
It looks like both of us are at our limits here......

Again I am pro-choice, but I think abortion should be taken more seriously and discussed more openly instead of every question about it being met with "you hate women".

No, I don't hate women, I love women, like alot..... I can see both sides of this and think we should talk about it more.

You know what Annie?....you're alright in my book
 
Old 07-02-2013, 05:20 PM
 
Location: White House, TN
5,146 posts, read 3,605,611 times
Reputation: 3230
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annie53 View Post
Let's use that same tactic for guns too.

The harder we make it for people to get a gun.....equals less guns....equals more lives saved.
Higher gun ownership has been proven to reduce crime, which saves lives. So your assertion is the exact opposite.

Each abortion prevented directly translates into a life saved, barring miscarriage, illegal abortion, or death of the mother during pregnancy. Since none of those things happen in a majority of cases, a prevented abortion is a life saved - the fetus, which develops into an infant, into a child, adolescent, adult, etc.

Example:

Let's say 10,000 women want an abortion.

Due to stricter regulations and more hoops to jump through, 5,000 women get abortions legally.

Of the other 5,000, let's say:

There are 500 miscarriages.

One woman dies during pregnancy.

200 women get their abortions done illegally.

That equals out to 4,299 lives saved. Remember, each baby born because their mother couldn't get an abortion is a life saved.

I don't care how bad the inconvenience is on the mother. Life expectancy for females in the US is 81 years. Nine months of even terrible inconvenience on the mother's life is a minuscule price to pay so that someone else can live a life that is, on average, about 80 years.

Oh, and as for the men-women equality thing: Abortion is terrible for women. Half of those fetuses aborted are female! That's right. As far as rights are concerned, a female baby girl that was just born today has the same rights as a 30 year old woman. (Likewise for men). We were all fetuses once, and that's what the pro-abortion people forget. You were a fetus. I was a fetus. It's the first stage in human development. Why put an age limit on the right to life? A fetus is dependent on its mother directly in the body; isn't a small child dependent on someone to survive as well?

The whole assertion that a fetus is not a human life is horse-*#&!. Therefore, the assertion that abortion is not murder is rendered false, and the whole idea of abortion just collapses on itself. They've studied this. The baby moves. It kicks and eats and sleeps.

In short, it's human.
 
Old 07-02-2013, 05:20 PM
 
Location: Ohio
14,311 posts, read 12,569,286 times
Reputation: 19017
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricGold View Post
It looks like both of us are at our limits here......

Again I am pro-choice, but I think abortion should be taken more seriously and discussed more openly instead of every question about it being met with "you hate women".

No, I don't hate women, I love women, like, alot..... I can see both sides of this and think we should talk about it more.

You know what Annie?....you're alright in my book
You are alright in my book too.
 
Old 07-02-2013, 05:25 PM
 
Location: White House, TN
5,146 posts, read 3,605,611 times
Reputation: 3230
And I find it funny that pro-lifers were called "old codgers" on the first page. The 1992 in my user name is my year of birth. 2013 - 1992 = 21. Account for the fact that my birthday is not until December 25 and I am 20 years old. 20 is hardly an old codger.
 
Old 07-04-2013, 03:56 PM
 
4,159 posts, read 4,193,081 times
Reputation: 2196
If we can save the life of one child it is worth it.
 
Old 07-04-2013, 07:06 PM
 
Location: Ohio
14,311 posts, read 12,569,286 times
Reputation: 19017
Quote:
Originally Posted by totsuka View Post
If we can save the life of one child it is worth it.
That's what many say about stricter gun control......if it can save the life of one child it is worth it.

And they are talking about actual children, not fetuses.
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