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Good, there's one convert in the bag. That was the entire point of this thread.
Once again, your reading comprehension fails you. I pointed out what no one was arguing. I said nothing about whether it was true, or whether I believed it.
But back to the question you continue to run away from like a frightened little girl:
If the DOI is a "law," then what are the penalties for not overthrowing the government?
The DOI is, in fact, law, and is as binding today as it was in 1776. And that will remain true until another duly empowered lawmaking body (today the Congress and President) makes a law changing or repealing it.
Point to ANY evidence that any judicial body in the united states who used the 1176 declaration as law, and thus used that to decide a court case
The Constitution makes it very CLEAR that Treason against the US government is illegal (regardless of your objective view of its tyranny).
I haven't seen any evidence that you can rule that the Constitution is un-declrationable and thus invalidated.
If you take up arms against the US, I'm doubtful you get treason. Just shooting a police officer or another charge. But if you had a bunch of friends and did something treasonous, . . .I just can't believe you would be so stupid to actually think that you could argue in a US court that you should be allowed to take up arms against the US because YOU believe it is tyrannical and YOU right to overthrow what you believe is tyrannical. . .your guaranteed right. This is a debate shelted in idioticiy, because 1) Little Acorn isn't going to go shooting up the US govt 2) if he did, he would go to jail for a long time . . .
That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do.
Yet under the Constitution, the states are not free and independent, they do not have the "Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce." Those powers acknowledged in the Declaration were superseded by the Constitution that revoked those very powers and granted them instead as an exclusive power held by the national government.
This is a very good point. My Point (5.) above is wrong: Parts of the Constitution, as you point out, did modify this part of the DOI. The States, which in 1776-1787 could levy war, contract alliances etc., gave up those particular powers when they ratified a Constitution that said those are now the powers of the Federal government, not the individual States any longer. The states also cannot coin money, regulate interstate commerce, etc., either, though they could in 1776. They also gave up those specific powers by ratifying a Constitution that transferred them to the Federal government.
But since the Constitution (or any other such document) did not modify the parts that said it is the right and duty of citizens to overthrow an oppressive government, my point remains.
The DOI was a legally binding law when it was passed, and except for parts specifically modified by the Constitution (as you pointed out), it remains legally binding to this day.
But since the Constitution (or any other such document) did not modify the parts that said it is the right and duty of citizens to overthrow an oppressive government, my point remains.
Quite. It simply substituted ballots for bullets as the means of overthrow.
P.S. Is it just a matter of time before the self-proclaimed ""Historian Dude" starts demanding to know where the sentencing guidelines are in the DOI, for failing to contract Alliances or failing to levy War?
I think you're fighting this one on the wrong turf.
The DOI is law in a certain sense, just not in the particular sense OP is trying to twist it into. By your definition, only criminal statutes are law.
Not really. He can go ahead and treat it as a civil statute if he wants and tell me what the civil penalties are, or even try to twist it into a tort if he even knows what that means.
I'm giving him all the latitude in the world necessary to demonstrate that there is a law in there somewhere.
Nobody is arguing that overthrowing an oppressive government is illegal.
As long as you win.
By the by....
18 USC 2385 - Advocating overthrow of Government
Sec. 2385. Advocating overthrow of Government
Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or
Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or
Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof—
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.
If two or more persons conspire to commit any offense named in this section, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.
As used in this section, the terms "organizes" and "organize", with respect to any society, group, or assembly of persons, include the recruiting of new members, the forming of new units, and the regrouping or expansion of existing clubs, classes, and other units of such society, group, or assembly of persons.
If it was good enough for the left, it is surely good enough for the right.
P.S. Is it just a matter of time before the self-proclaimed ""Historian Dude" starts demanding to know where the sentencing guidelines are in the DOI, for failing to contract Alliances or failing to levy War?
Red Herring. Those are powers of the state, not the individual people.
Please... what are the penalties of failing to overthrow the government?
I'm still waiting.
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