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Old 07-07-2013, 10:17 AM
 
Location: texas
9,127 posts, read 7,916,443 times
Reputation: 2385

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Quote:
Originally Posted by buddy5 View Post
The Confederate flag is also an American flag. All the ships (from America) bringing slaves, also flew the American flag. All those ships were owned by the North.
This is the CSA flag. The only confederate flag that flew over Texas. The only thing that made the CSA flag 'American" is that it flew here.





So I dont know about that other rag...
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Old 07-07-2013, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Va. Beach
6,392 posts, read 5,152,489 times
Reputation: 2283
Quote:
Originally Posted by mackinac81 View Post
Yes, blacks did own slaves...all ten of them did

I love how people trot out that fact as if to take the blame off white southerners for that. Slavery was largely a race based system with white people (and very few black outliers) at the top, and four million black slaves at the bottom. And bringing up black slaveowners won't change that a bit.
Your numbers are inaccurate. Over 3000 black slave owners in New Orleans alone, and in the south proper another couple of thousand. Please don't use the tired argument that they wanted to own slaves so they didn't belong to some white guy, a number of black slave owners had over 10 slaves, some over 100.

Slavery was an UGLY time in American history, and as a 2nd generation American, I was able to learn history without preconceived notions. I am thankful that this period in history is over, but people keep trying to spout crud like the above, want to thank someone for slavery, Like I noted previously, thank a black man, prior to him, there were only indentured servants who were required to be freed as free people after a max time of 7 years. It wasn't a white/black thing, and in fact there were also white indentured servants.

Thankfully this is behind us, but if you want to learn from history so it's never repeated, learn what really happened, not what you THINK happened.
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Old 07-07-2013, 10:26 AM
 
Location: Va. Beach
6,392 posts, read 5,152,489 times
Reputation: 2283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimuelojones View Post
This is the CSA flag. The only confederate flag that flew over Texas. The only thing that made the CSA flag 'American" is that it flew here.





So I dont know about that other rag...
Actually, there were 3 differing CSA Flags. The first style, stars and bars, 4 iterations, each with a differing number of stars, the second, A white flag with the ensign also used as the battle flag of northern Va, in the top corner, called the stainless banner and there were 2 styles, and the third flag, the same as the second, but with a red strip down the side, known as the blood stained banner.
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Old 07-07-2013, 10:26 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,214,150 times
Reputation: 27718
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkatt View Post
Your numbers are inaccurate. Over 3000 black slave owners in New Orleans alone, and in the south proper another couple of thousand. Please don't use the tired argument that they wanted to own slaves so they didn't belong to some white guy, a number of black slave owners had over 10 slaves, some over 100.

Slavery was an UGLY time in American history, and as a 2nd generation American, I was able to learn history without preconceived notions. I am thankful that this period in history is over, but people keep trying to spout crud like the above, want to thank someone for slavery, Like I noted previously, thank a black man, prior to him, there were only indentured servants who were required to be freed as free people after a max time of 7 years. It wasn't a white/black thing, and in fact there were also white indentured servants.

Thankfully this is behind us, but if you want to learn from history so it's never repeated, learn what really happened, not what you THINK happened.

This is not taught in K-12. K-12 presents a one sided story with no wavering or exceptions.
It was in college where I learned so much more about the Civil War era both pre and post.

Here's another prominent Black slave owner. One of the richest in South Carolina and a successful business man. His sons fought for the South.

William Ellison - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 07-07-2013, 10:29 AM
 
2,040 posts, read 2,449,623 times
Reputation: 1066
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
I suppose if you are stuck back in 19th century concepts of race... by racial pseudo science has been replaced the genetics of human migration. So, I'm sorry to inform you that there is only one "race."



Who the frack wouldn't call themselves white if it gets in the club and the doorman is too stupid to know any better. Like a said, who is white and who isn't (as long as they aren't black folks or Mexicans) are white when it is convenient for white folks.

Because Jesus is Semitic all Semites are white, at least until one plants a bomb to kill Real White People™ by the way all Arabs are semites but not all Semites are Arabs).

Because the Pyramids weren't built in Europe, Egyptians are white, except during the colonial occupation they were just Arabs or worse, North Africans!
Wow!???? Just wow!

The world population can be genetically divided into 4 major races, namely White/Caucasian, Mongoloid/Asian, Negroid/Black, and Australoid.

All the rest are classified in terms of "ethnicity"..... not "race".

A "Mexican" (technically speaking) is of a European/Spanish descent....a "Caucasian".



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Old 07-07-2013, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Laurentia
5,580 posts, read 7,971,324 times
Reputation: 2442
Quote:
Originally Posted by buddy5 View Post
The Confederate flag is also an American flag. All the ships (from America) bringing slaves,
also flew the American flag. All those ships were owned by the North.
Indeed. I'd be willing to bet that more atrocities were committed under the USA flag than the CSA flag, not that it makes any difference. The Confederate battle flag has become the most readily usable symbol of the South, Southern culture, and Southern history, both good and bad, just like any other flag for any other region or country.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pezkiln View Post
That's funny. History for whites is tied hand in hand with the enslavement of another peoples. And that's somehow a point of pride.
Slavery is something all races have practiced in the past, not just whites, and I would like to point out that whites led the abolitionist charge against slavery in America and Europe, the Emancipation Proclamation was signed by a white man (Lincoln), and white men ratified the Thirteenth Amendment. There were whites opposed to Jim Crow, and all of the civil rights acts over the past 150 years were signed by white Presidents. That's just for starters - there are many more historical events and movements that were driven by whites, many of them quite beneficial. Whites have also obviously exercised a greater influence in world history than any other racial group (so far anyway). If whites should be ashamed at practicing slavery, should they not be equally proud of ending slavery? Whites have plenty to be proud of in their history, but like all races there is a dark side. Why should whites be portrayed as historical villains and have the good side of their history ignored while blacks and others highlight the historical goodness of their race? It's time to end this form of ignorance and racism.

That said, I think devoting certain times of year to the study of any race is just plain silly, and you'll never see me celebrating white history month or black history month.
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Old 07-07-2013, 10:47 AM
 
2,040 posts, read 2,449,623 times
Reputation: 1066
Quote:
Originally Posted by buddy5 View Post
The Confederate flag is also an American flag. All the ships (from America) bringing slaves,
also flew the American flag. All those ships were owned by the North.
The flag of the Confederate States of America certainly is not an "American" (as in: USA) flag just because it was flown in a portion of North America unless you consider the Canadian flag an American flag as well.

The States that flew that flag had seceded from the USA. It was it's own separate nation.

And slave ships originating from the USA would not have flown an American flag either since prior to the Civil War, the US flag was reserved primarily for the US military and was not flown by commercial ships. The US flag wasn't a popular thing for common citizens to display UNTIL the onset of the Civil War in the North to stir-up patriotism and preserve the union.



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Old 07-07-2013, 10:49 AM
 
43 posts, read 33,074 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Dude, there are more issues than the Federal government that southern white folks consistently get wrong. Po white folks have been kissing rich white folks butts for since before the Civil War.

They supported slavery despite the fact that it was the instrument that kept the south mired in an agrarian economy,

They supported Jim Crow that allowed their white southern boses to keep wages low,

They gave away tax dollars to large corporations who promised to pay them less than the union wage and as a result kept their schools underfunded and their healthcare system a bloody mess.

They fought unions almost as hard as they fought integration which kept their earnings low and the level of safety in their work places even lower not that either benefitted them in anyway.

If take the argument that African Americans vote for the Democratic Party to get free stuff, then what do po white folks in the south get for voting for the Republicans?

Aside from guns, jeeezus, and the illusion that they are better than black folk, they get nothing, in fact they get less than nothing, lowest educational attainment, highest infant mortality rates, and highest rates of poverty.
Because rich people give us jobs and lead us. They are born to it. Why cant you people understand this? We get paid what we deserve. Our schools were fine until 1965. I hope this man comes to our next Tea Party rally.
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Old 07-07-2013, 11:34 AM
 
596 posts, read 728,018 times
Reputation: 1409
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
Excuse me? When I saw the watermelons on display, I could pretty much tell this had everything to do with starting problems. Anyone who would claim "PC" obviously thinks according to stereotypes Ask yourself this: Why else would someone use a Confederate flag and watermelons to display "white pride"? I don't see any White people from the rest of the nation identifying with that, and watermelons are basically a stereotype against Black people. I don't see how seeing that float as distasteful is being "politically correct". Yes, that person has a right to use such a float. However, I also have freedom of speech to express how distasteful it is.
I've stated many times that the phrase "politcally correct" is so over-used that it has pretty much lost all meaning. Not to mention that most people don't seem to comprehend what the phrase originally meant in the first place, and therefore use it to describe situations that have nothing to do with political correctness. This is a perfect example. This idiotic float is not about political correctness. It is pure ignorance. Flying the confederate flag and hauling around watermelons does nothing but show how ignorant and backwards this individual is. He thinks he's making some clever point, when in reality the only people who don't think he's a sad, pathetic joke are those who already share his biased views.
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Old 07-07-2013, 11:34 AM
 
Location: St. Joseph Area
6,233 posts, read 9,459,207 times
Reputation: 3133
Quote:
Originally Posted by lionsgators View Post
putting the blame on white southerners is where you are wrong. the average southern soldier in the civil war didn't own shoes. you think he owned slaves? you had a system of rich white aristocrats at the top who owned slaves, and controlled the flow of information. don't pretend that all southerners were slave owners, and that they actually knew what they were fighting for in the civil war.
No, I will blame white southerners (as much as I blame northern factory owners). I'm well aware that only 25% or so southerners owned slaves in 1860, and I didn't say that "all southerners were slave owners". But the rest of the poor whites just supported the system because, while the Planter class was working against their interests, they were okay with that because in their mind, the Planters, with their sprawling plantations, kept the blacks under control. So slavery was okay with them. A similar argument can be made for why Southerners were so supportive of Jim Crow, Lynchings, and the like for over a century after the Civil War.

Time and again through southern history poor and non-rich whites consistently supported things that were against their own economic or social interests interests because controlling the black population--and maintaining the Southern social order--was a higher priority, and they were willing to pay almost any price to maintain that order. Sad, but true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkatt View Post
Your numbers are inaccurate. Over 3000 black slave owners in New Orleans alone, and in the south proper another couple of thousand. Please don't use the tired argument that they wanted to own slaves so they didn't belong to some white guy, a number of black slave owners had over 10 slaves, some over 100.

Slavery was an UGLY time in American history, and as a 2nd generation American, I was able to learn history without preconceived notions. I am thankful that this period in history is over, but people keep trying to spout crud like the above, want to thank someone for slavery, Like I noted previously, thank a black man, prior to him, there were only indentured servants who were required to be freed as free people after a max time of 7 years. It wasn't a white/black thing, and in fact there were also white indentured servants.

Thankfully this is behind us, but if you want to learn from history so it's never repeated, learn what really happened, not what you THINK happened.
Of course there were more than ten. I was using hyperbole to illustrate what a small number they still were in proportion to the white slaveholding population, and also to illustrate how rediculous it is to paint slave owning as a multicultural endeavor when it was clearly dominated by the white, wealthy, slaveowning class.

A couple thousand is still a rediculously small number.
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