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If your "dumbness" evinced a reckless disregard for human life, then yes, you deserve to go to jail. Drunk drivers are dumb. And they kill lots of people every year. And they deserve to go to jail.
Drunk driving is against the law, bad example. I am not aware of anything Z did against the law prior to the altercation.
Even if he is acquitted, Zimmerman may be looking at a wrongful death lawsuit which he would likely lose, much in the way it happened with OJ. I'm not sure how the laws in FLA would impact this process though.
GZ was a wannabe crime-fighter/superhero. A paranoid little man who wanted to be a big man. Trayvon was a 17 year old kid, and sometimes kids make unwise choices. He obviously felt threatened by GZ and engaged with him rather than walk away or run. How many 17 year olds do you know who make sound decisions at a moment of adversity or under pressure? I know when I was 17 I was out of control. Scrapes with the law, fighting, etc. I'm glad no one took it upon themselves to eliminate me from society because they thought I didn't belong here.
GZ got brave because he had a gun. He was irresponsible and got in over his head. Now, someone's child is dead.
I understand having different point of view on this case, but I do get tired of people calling Trayvon a KID. A 17 year old killed Redskin Sean Taylor, A 17 year old was 1 half of the Columbine massacre, in all but 18 states, you can have legal sex at 16/17 years old, I was in the military at 17. Being 17 is not a kid by many definitions. If you called Trayvon a KID in front of Sean Taylors fiancé, she'd probably give you the finger
Trayvon was 5'11 158lbs. Thomas Hearns, former boxing champ was 5'11 140. That size can do some damage
As a teacher, Ive repeatedly seen 16/17 year olds physically beat up security and teachers
They are not the innocent babies many people make them out to be regardless of what that birth certificate says
Last edited by jacktravern; 07-12-2013 at 09:35 AM..
Reason: Mispelled a word
Drunk driving is against the law, bad example. I am not aware of anything Z did against the law prior to the altercation.
Drinking and driving is not against the law. There's nothing on the books that says I can't have two beers and then get behind the wheel. Driving while impaired is against the law. And a judge or jury has to make that factual determination. If a judge or jury finds that my behavior is reckless due to my consumption of alcohol (essentially that I was "drunk"), then I should (and will) be convicted accordingly.
So drinking and driving is not against the law per se. You don't break the law by consuming alcohol and then driving. You break the law by being negligent, which is a factual determination that can only be made by a judge or jury. It's still a dumb idea to get behind the wheel after you've had any number of drinks.
Couple of things. If we are going by the rule of law, it is not a crime NOT to listen to a 911 dispatcher. It is also NOT a crime to follow someone. It COULD BE a crime to shoot someone if it is NOT self defense. That is the only legal issue that the jury should be dealing with. All else around this trial has been politically motivated and trumped up as a sideshow by the media, for obvious reasons. Whether or not something is morally wrong, has racial overtones, etc -- those things are NOT legal issues in a court of law.
Change the gender. I am a woman. So a strange, creepy ass man (say like a Zimmerman) has the perfect legal right to follow any woman he so chooses to? Perfectly legal, right? Now what do you think any woman would think about that? Oh, yeah, he is just a really nice guy who is looking for a DATE? The majority of people in this country would think that woman should be ARMED and shoot the bastard if he tried to attack her.
Drinking and driving is not against the law. There's nothing on the books that says I can't have two beers and then get behind the wheel. Driving while impaired is against the law. And a judge or jury has to make that factual determination. If a judge or jury finds that my behavior is reckless due to my consumption of alcohol (essentially that I was "drunk"), then I should (and will) be convicted accordingly.
So drinking and driving is not against the law per se. You don't break the law by consuming alcohol and then driving. You break the law by being negligent, which is a factual determination that can only be made by a judge or jury. It's still a dumb idea to get behind the wheel after you've had any number of drinks.
Right, and both of us were talking about "drunk" driving, which would indicate an impaired ability to drive and is against the law.
If anyone thinks for one moment that Treyvon Martin deserved to be executed for what ever he was doing that night, you are a racist.
Really, end of the discussion. Rent a Cop was not God. He doesn't get to decide who live and who dies. He was an adult, who got into an altercation with a teenager.
If anyone thinks for one moment that Treyvon Martin deserved to be executed for what ever he was doing that night, you are a racist.
Really, end of the discussion. Rent a Cop was not God. He doesn't get to decide who live and who dies. He was an adult, who got into an altercation with a teenager.
I understand having different point of view on this case, but I do get tired of people calling Trayvon a KID. A 17 year old killed Redskin Sean Taylor, A 17 year old was 1 half of the Columbine massacre, in all but 18 states, you can have legal sex at 16/17 years old, I was in the military at 17. Being 17 is not a kid by many definitions. If you called Trayvon a KID in front of Sean Taylors fiancé, she'd probably give you the finger
Trayvon was 5'11 158lbs. Thomas Hearns, former boxing champ was 5'11 140. That size can do some damage
As a teacher, Ive repeatedly seen 16/17 year olds physically beat up security and teachers
They are not the innocent babies many people make them out to be regardless of what that birth certificate says
I understand that a 17 year old is not a child in the sense that an 8 year old is, but the average 17 year old does not make sound and mature decisions. You can at least grant me that, yes? This is why you are not allowed to vote, own a gun, drink alcohol, buy pornographic material, or enter bars and nightclubs at the age of 17, you aren't mature enough to make rational decisions that are in the best interest of yourself and others.
I know there are 17 year olds who have joined the military and have demonstrated wisdom and maturity beyond their years, but that's not the AVERAGE 17 year old. The average 17 year old is not trusted to make sound life choices.
This particular 17 year old we're discussing was walking alone with a hoodie, a bag of skittles, and an ice tea, not bothering anyone. It was likely he felt intimidated and rather than run he stood his ground. I would feel concerned if GZ was stalking me too. Not sure how I'd react until it happens, but if I were GZ, armed with a gun, I don't think I'd go looking for trouble.
A 911 operator is not the police, the fire department, the sheriff's department or any law enforcement agency. They are a civilian employee for a city, county or other municipality. A 911 operator holds no legal power to order anyone they are in contact with to do anything within the context of a legal framework.
They're professionals at managing emergencies. They know what works and what doesn't. Few people would ignore their advice in an emergency. GZ is one of those few, and look where it got him.
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