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Old 07-24-2013, 07:09 PM
 
Location: Milwaukee
1,999 posts, read 2,464,467 times
Reputation: 568

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Quote:
Originally Posted by northnut View Post
I kinda could care less if you don't like my statements. And you haven't provided reasons for your statements.
Actually, I did with my statement about obesity. It is strongly correlated with adverse health outcomes like the development diabetes.

This is why I say obesity may be more immoral than homosexuality. Admittedly, my view of the immorality of homosexuality results more from the influences of theology (some call it religious philosophy, where others separate the two). But I'm fine with that. That same theological tradition is what tells me a man is to married to one woman--not several.

That same theological tradition tends to view sex as principally for reproductive purposes. That theological tradition aligns with the life sciences on that point.

One might argue that homosexually, since its aim is not one towards reproductive purposes, is principally based in lust. They might argue that. But I really haven't thought much on the issue of "lust," so, I'm not sure I would make that argument.
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Old 07-24-2013, 07:18 PM
 
Location: Milwaukee
1,999 posts, read 2,464,467 times
Reputation: 568
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supine View Post
Good point. I had to rep this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffis View Post
So the person who doesn't like vanilla, by your "reasoning" can change their way of thinking and their desire for that flavor.

That is your assertion, correct?
My comment above you quoted was primarily aimed at his point that education should foster a desire to learn as oppose to just brainwashing a student.

I'm not sure if a person that does not like the taste of vanilla can ever learn to like it, by their own efforts to or not. Issues of tastes in our mouths is not something I know much about. I do know I always hated corn but for whatever reason, a reason I do not understand, I've come kind of like the taste of cooked corn over the last few years.
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Old 07-24-2013, 07:49 PM
 
Location: Deep Dirty South
5,190 posts, read 5,321,801 times
Reputation: 3863
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supine View Post
My comment above you quoted was primarily aimed at his point that education should foster a desire to learn as oppose to just brainwashing a student.
Of course. What institutions are you claiming "brainwash" rather than educate? Can you name a few and the reasons why you think they are brainwashing centers?

Quote:
I'm not sure if a person that does not like the taste of vanilla can ever learn to like it, by their own efforts to or not. Issues of tastes in our mouths is not something I know much about. I do know I always hated corn but for whatever reason, a reason I do not understand, I've come kind of like the taste of cooked corn over the last few years.
Well, at least you are completely inconsistent!
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Old 07-24-2013, 08:34 PM
 
Location: Lower east side of Toronto
10,567 posts, read 12,790,018 times
Reputation: 9399
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saritaschihuahua View Post
I'd say it's related to intelligence quotient.
There are some very bright and articulate people here. It's rather impressive it you take the time to read...some points of view are so well presented that they are attitude changing. It all does get down to intelligence quotient. The most intellgent approach is live and let live. As my dad used to say when it came down to resources...and survival- whether it be food on the table or money in the box..."There are others"...very simple- it is not about one surviving at the peril of another...intelligence dictates that all have a right to life. I will make it clear- the issue of homosexuality verses heterosexuality is competitive in nature. Competition like capitalism does not always bring the best to the forefront- just the most aggressive.
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Old 07-24-2013, 08:38 PM
 
7,300 posts, read 6,715,725 times
Reputation: 2915
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Bach View Post
There are some very bright and articulate people here. It's rather impressive it you take the time to read...some points of view are so well presented that they are attitude changing. It all does get down to intelligence quotient. The most intellgent approach is live and let live. As my dad used to say when it came down to resources...and survival- whether it be food on the table or money in the box..."There are others"...very simple- it is not about one surviving at the peril of another...intelligence dictates that all have a right to life. I will make it clear- the issue of homosexuality verses heterosexuality is competitive in nature. Competition like capitalism does not always bring the best to the forefront- just the most aggressive.
Civil rights are not up for people to decide if they like them or not, whether their pastor agrees with those civil rights or not, or whether they feel funny about the civil rights because they wish they could go back to the past. They're civil rights.
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Old 07-24-2013, 08:53 PM
 
Location: In the Redwoods
30,286 posts, read 51,826,004 times
Reputation: 23660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot_Handz View Post
People should have the right to live in societies with norms conducive to their happiness.
Ummmmm, no they shouldn't... since we all have different ideas of what's "normal" or "conducive to our happiness," such a thing would be impossible to achieve. What, are we going to start separating neighborhoods by "thinks gays are immoral" & "thinks they're fine?" What about people who think one religion is better than every other? People already self-segregate based on these things to some degree, but it is most certainly not - and should not be - a RIGHT. You alone are responsible for your happiness, stop putting the burden on other people to do that for you.

P.S. Don't give me any BS about how the "norms" are decided by society, because that's just something people say when they can't accept others have differing opinions. Even if only ONE person disagreed, that by definition would mean there is no societal agreement.
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Old 07-24-2013, 08:56 PM
 
Location: In the Redwoods
30,286 posts, read 51,826,004 times
Reputation: 23660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffis View Post
Of course. What institutions are you claiming "brainwash" rather than educate? Can you name a few and the reasons why you think they are brainwashing centers?
I'll answer that for you: Any institution which doesn't affirm their biases. Whether it's Yale or Kalamazoo Community College, they'll label any school as "brainwashing propaganda machines" if they hear even ONE professor has an opinion other than their own. Or if, heaven forbid, they dare to discuss anything outside of the basic subjects. Ya know, wouldn't want to make anyone think beyond learning math equations.

Last edited by gizmo980; 07-24-2013 at 09:05 PM..
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Old 07-24-2013, 09:02 PM
 
Location: In the Redwoods
30,286 posts, read 51,826,004 times
Reputation: 23660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saritaschihuahua View Post
So the more common the trait, the more superior it is? As Honey Boo Book's redneck family says: MO' BETTAH! LOL.
Haha.

And by that definition, I guess non-Hispanic white people (in the US) had better start accepting their inferiority - seeing as we're quickly losing ground to the Hispanics, and worldwide, to the Asian people. I suppose I'm already "inferior," though, seeing as I'm a naturally redheaded Jew... so nothing new to me!
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Old 07-24-2013, 09:05 PM
 
8,091 posts, read 5,899,271 times
Reputation: 1578
Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmo980 View Post
Ummmmm, no they shouldn't... since we all have different ideas of what's "normal" or "conducive to our happiness," such a thing would be impossible to achieve. What, are we going to start separating neighborhoods by "thinks gays are immoral" & "thinks they're fine?" What about people who think one religion is better than every other? People already self-segregate based on these things to some degree, but it is most certainly not - and should not be - a RIGHT. You alone are responsible for your happiness, stop putting the burden on other people to do that for you.

P.S. Don't give me any BS about how the "norms" are decided by society, because that's just something people say when they can't accept others have differing opinions. Even if only ONE person disagreed, that by definition would mean there is no societal agreement.
Yes they should...

Who is putting the burden on OTHER people for MY happiness? The point that you seem to miss...is that if all states seceded and formed much smaller societies...it would be MUCH easier to form these societies. And it would be MUCH more feasible to find parity among people and their likes as opposed to trying to strike some common ground between 300+ MILLION PEOPLE.

If you think that social norms should be FORCED upon a demographic, just so they chip in or pay forward other peoples lifestyles...then you are more selfish than anybody.

And to the bolded part...social norms ARE decided by society. Why do they exist or HOW do they exist? Are you trying to tell me that legislation is more natural than mores? Forget being natural... what the hell do you think laws ARE? They are nothing more than norms that are forced and they are AGREED UPON BY SOCIETY.
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Old 07-24-2013, 09:46 PM
 
Location: Milwaukee
1,999 posts, read 2,464,467 times
Reputation: 568
Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffis View Post
Of course. What institutions are you claiming "brainwash" rather than educate? Can you name a few and the reasons why you think they are brainwashing centers?
Public schools. At least public schools at the primary and secondary level. Traditionally they have been used as centers of indoctrination.

The Democratic Party too. But I would say the same of the Republican Party.


Quote:
Well, at least you are completely inconsistent!
I don't see where the inconsistency comes in, unless you mean that I stated I developed a liking for the taste of cooked corn when previously I hated the taste of corn, that in context to this statement I made before it: "I'm not sure if a person that does not like the taste of vanilla can ever learn to like it, by their own efforts to or not. Issues of tastes in our mouths is not something I know much about."

As I stated, how things taste, how that works chemically and physiologically for humans, I don't know much of anything about. So, it's not something I would really argue over. But this thread is not about whether someone likes vanilla flavored ice cream more than chocolate flavored ice cream. Though, I'm sure you would like to distract with that. It's a tactic you can better use on 12 year old children you're intending to indoctrinate with your mores and ideological views. I'm an adult with a lot of life experiences and a little bit of college education. So, I'm not distracted from the issue that the gay man in the 20/20 news story faked his death and abandoned his wife and children (his daughter is still emotionally hurt by his disappearance if you watched the video). Which is really the central issue. I have a male relative that divorced his wife, though it was something they both wanted once she wanted to leave him, had nothing to do with his sexual orientation, but he now lives romantically with a man and stays in touch and involved in his young adult children's lives. It might be worth noting he never abandoned his wife or kids to take up a sexual romance with another woman or man while he was married.

A lesbian aunt of mine with her female partner took in a troubled young man when his father asked them if they would be willing to take the teenager in. Sexually molested by his mother at a young age he ended up sexually molesting his younger sister. The courts said he could not reside in the same house as his sister. Ergo, his father asked my aunt if she would be willing to take him in.

The young man is doing well now from understanding. And this teenager was not even my aunt and her partner's biological child.

I don't think it's an extraordinary request to ask or except a man to not just up an abandon his child whether he be gay or heterosexual. And I'm not necessarily talking monetarily. Fathers that are trying to get work but remain unemployed need not feel shame. And putting their daughters to bed, reading them a story, and helping advise them in life are important bonding things that help give children a sense of security.
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