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Old 07-31-2013, 03:38 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,199,011 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natalie469 View Post
McCain lost because of Palin and 8 years of Bush. He might have had a chance with Liberman, who he really wanted, but doubtful. Romney lost because he's a chameleon who no one trusted. He ran as a conservative when he wasn't.
This is said all the time but one has to remember, McCain lost to Bush. Bush was an incredibly weak candidate in 2000 and McCain still lost to him.
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Old 07-31-2013, 04:14 AM
 
11,086 posts, read 8,544,279 times
Reputation: 6392
Many republicans are captives of the Military and Security Complex. Christie is one of them.
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Old 07-31-2013, 05:43 AM
 
Location: Houston, Tx
8,227 posts, read 11,146,531 times
Reputation: 8198
Quote:
Originally Posted by knowledgeiskey View Post
lol

I thought libertarians were fans of Christie.




Chris Christie attacks libertarians - YouTube



Libertarians never supported fat man, most republicans outside the northeast don't even like him.
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Old 07-31-2013, 05:46 AM
 
Location: right here
4,160 posts, read 5,620,914 times
Reputation: 4929
He's doing to make a great Democrat.
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Old 07-31-2013, 05:53 AM
 
Location: Houston, Tx
8,227 posts, read 11,146,531 times
Reputation: 8198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patricius Maximus View Post
You obviously have no idea what libertarianism is. I've never heard of any mainline libertarian of any prominence who is a fan of Christie. His support for the surveillance state in and of itself disqualifies him from being any kind of libertarian, not to mention his support for gun control, public schools, all manner of special privileges with regards to taxation, FEMA, his pre-Snowden support for the Patriot Act, and his belief that America must be the policeman of the world. In terms of his political views he's probably closer to Rudy Giuliani than Justin Amash or Ron Paul.

This chart from Ontheissues.org shows the difference pretty clearly between Chris Christie and Ron Paul, who is a prominent libertarian. Ron Paul is the dot on the top and Christie is the dot on the bottom:



Notice how Ron Paul fits pretty well into the libertarian group, and also notice how far away Chris Christie is from Ron Paul. He actually leans towards the opposite viewpoint to libertarianism, referred to in this chart as populism, but also known as authoritarianism or statism.

He has come out in support of a few positions libertarians support, but all of those are ones that are politically expedient at this time; good examples include saying the full-body scanners/"enhanced" pat-downs are too invasive, supporting gay marriage, and saying the War on Drugs has been a failure. On all of these issues he was nowhere to be found before the early 2010's, and he even held the opposite viewpoint on gay marriage when he ran for Governor in 2009.

In contrast, Ron Paul supported legalizing drugs way back in 1988 when 73% of Americans didn't even want to legalize marijuana, let alone harder drugs (source), and other libertarians were opposed to the War on Drugs from the beginning. This article neatly encapsulates mainstream thought at the time, but Chris Christie was nowhere to be found until public opinion decisively turned in Ron Paul's direction .



Libertarianism is not the governing philosophy of the Detroit government, as demonstrated by their enormous debt (which libertarians would never have run up), their hostile regulations on business, and "Operation Compliance", which earlier this year targeted harmless businessmen in a last-ditch effort to raise more revenue. Such actions are condemned by libertarians. Detroit is a failed city, not a libertarian city.

That said, the few glimmers of hope that still exist in the city are almost entirely the work of private-sector groups that are practicing "libertarianism by necessity". This article from Fox is the best I've seen on the subject. In all of these cases, private business and volunteers have not only remedied the failures of the city government, but have actually done a better job of providing service. Far from being an indictment of libertarian ideas, these incidents cast libertarianism in a very positive light.



Republicans have their own misconceptions, such as thinking Rand Paul is some uber-libertarian radical when if anything he's too moderate. Generally, I agree that Democrats do seem to have a harder time separating libertarianism from the conservative right. A prime example is this claim that "Disciples of Ayn Rand's philosophy of selfishness now dominate the thinking of the leadership of the conservative movement and the Republican Party". This claim has become widespread among Democrats, despite Objectivism and Republican views having little in common (as laid out here and here).



I'd gladly tell them that spying on innocent people like them will do nothing to prevent terrorism, and that the surveillance state actually makes it easier for the government to commit terrorism. It also encourages the mentality of the public being the enemy. I'd also ask if the NSA is so necessary to keep us safe, how come it didn't prevent the Boston bombing?

This sounds a lot like how some people wanted pro-gun people to explain their opposition to gun control to the Newtown families. That led to the opposite of the desired result, culminating in Aaron Weiss's "my right trumps your dead" speech. Christie is attempting to pull the same trick now that Obama pulled after Newtown; Obama failed, and so will Christie.
Excellent post.
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Old 07-31-2013, 06:31 AM
 
Location: A great city, by a Great Lake!
15,896 posts, read 11,988,465 times
Reputation: 7502
Quote:
Originally Posted by GetBent View Post
Rand would mop the floor with Christie on the constitutional issues that face this nation.
Just like he already did with Hilary.
True. However; I have a feeling that Rand is going to get thrown under the bus by the Republican Party and the lamestream media just like his father did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg_IA View Post
Christie is another statist.
Indeed he is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GetBent View Post
McCain is a Progressive, just like Mitt Romney. They both tried to beat a professional Progressive at their craft, using the Republican monarch as their team logo.... Conservatives stayed home and let the Progressives in both parties battle it out. Which party has the most progressives?
Put another Progressive republican in the running, like the media has done over and over and you will give the presidency to another new world order progressive, regardless of party. Nothing will ever change.
Ron Paul was the only one you were going to get a change with. A conservative.
And the media and his party made damn sure that Ron Paul was a non-factor. It's too bad too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goinback2011 View Post
Many republicans are captives of the Military and Security Complex. Christie is one of them.
Yep. Republicans love themselves some big gubbermint just as much as the Democrats do.
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