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Old 07-29-2013, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,436,896 times
Reputation: 27720

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
I think that people erroneously believe medium income is actually enough to get by.

There was a period that even people in lower wage jobs were making enough to afford a decent life. Not anymore.


On an autocorrecting iDevice.
Because real inflation, not government contrived inflation, outpaced salary raises.
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Old 07-29-2013, 12:15 PM
 
11,768 posts, read 10,256,702 times
Reputation: 3444
Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
I think that people erroneously believe medium income is actually enough to get by.

There was a period that even people in lower wage jobs were making enough to afford a decent life. Not anymore.


On an autocorrecting iDevice.
Median income is just that, median income. The national median income is enough to live on in the vast majority of the country. Lower skilled jobs were enough to get by on and raise a family when the USA wasn't competing with other countries, before automation, and before women starting entering the workforce en mass, but that hasn't been the reality for 20-30 years. The American economy is based on intellectual skills and to compete you need those skills, otherwise you will get left behind.

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Old 07-29-2013, 12:18 PM
 
11,768 posts, read 10,256,702 times
Reputation: 3444
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Because real inflation, not government contrived inflation, outpaced salary raises.
The cost of living is lower now when you adjust for inflation with 3 main exceptions. Healthcare, housing, and transportation.

Healthcare is more monopolistic than it was 30 years ago.
Homes are cheaper, but the sq ft is more so you have to spend more.
Cars are cheaper, but families have to buy 2 now.

Oh, and education is also more expensive.
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Old 07-29-2013, 12:19 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,436,896 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by lycos679 View Post
Median income is just that, median income. The national median income is enough to live on in the vast majority of the country. Lower skilled jobs were enough to get by on and raise a family when the USA wasn't competing with other countries, before automation, and before women starting entering the workforce en mass, but that hasn't been the reality for 20-30 years. The American economy is based on intellectual skills and to compete you need those skills, otherwise you will get left behind.
Today sure but the trend is declining. 25% of all American children are on food stamps.
That percentage is increasing, not decreasing.

I disagree that is has not been the reality for 20-30 years.
More like within the last 10 years as white collar jobs left the country.

30 years ago these emerging nations didn't have the educational level to take over white collar jobs.

The lower skilled jobs everyone talks about were the blue collar, no college degree jobs.
And middle class families did exist on them and even sent their kids to college.
Most of the baby boomer generation came from blue collar families.
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Old 07-29-2013, 12:19 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
28,226 posts, read 36,852,900 times
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The thing is, the average American is 1-2 missing paychecks away from financial crisis. Wages aren't enough to build a sufficient cushion.


On an autocorrecting iDevice.
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Old 07-29-2013, 12:24 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,436,896 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by lycos679 View Post
The cost of living is lower now when you adjust for inflation with 3 main exceptions. Healthcare, housing, and transportation.

Healthcare is more monopolistic than it was 30 years ago.
Homes are cheaper, but the sq ft is more so you have to spend more.
Cars are cheaper, but families have to buy 2 now.

Oh, and education is also more expensive.
The government has changed their methodology for calculating inflation 3 times since 1980.
If you are going to compare with current adjustments then you can only compare back to 1990 because prior to that used a different methodology.
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Old 07-29-2013, 12:27 PM
 
11,768 posts, read 10,256,702 times
Reputation: 3444
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Today sure but the trend is declining. 25% of all American children are on food stamps.
That percentage is increasing, not decreasing.

I disagree that is has not been the reality for 20-30 years.
More like within the last 10 years as white collar jobs left the country.

30 years ago these emerging nations didn't have the educational level to take over white collar jobs.
White collar jobs aren't usually lower skilled jobs.

The percentage of people on food stamps is increasing because the requirements are more relaxed and the Americans on food stamps have 3X the birthrate of other Americans. This shouldn't be surprising though, when you subsidize something you will get more of it.
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Old 07-29-2013, 12:33 PM
 
11,768 posts, read 10,256,702 times
Reputation: 3444
Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
The thing is, the average American is 1-2 missing paychecks away from financial crisis. Wages aren't enough to build a sufficient cushion.


On an autocorrecting iDevice.
The average American is also financially illiterate.
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Old 07-29-2013, 05:55 PM
 
29,939 posts, read 39,447,879 times
Reputation: 4799
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
How do societies and governments respond to downward mobility? What happens when 5 single burger flippers seek to rent a house together because that's the only way each one can afford to pay rent?

Will society and government embrace that living model, or will they react by prohibitig more than three unrelated from living together?

In other words, will we be fighting each other and pushing those below us down in order to sty above them while we ourselves fall?
The reality is there's nothing you can do Nationally. What YOU can do is better yourself in as many ways as possible. That's not going to guarantee you anything but it will at least give you a fighting chance.

In terms of thinking forward. You have those people who say the National debt and deficits are nothing to worry about, that we should be spending more than we take in until unemployment decreases to an acceptable level. What those people don't seem to understand that globalization is occurring quicker than anyone could have imagined and "relative wealth" is transferring at an enormous rate "roughly from West to East" and that it will continue "for the foreseeable future."

So, as the middle-class is getting beaten global demand and eroding wages, what sense does it make it blow the budget and increase deficits beyond "WW II" levels if you know the country is going to be competing like it's never had to compete before? I mean, who's the winner when equilibrium is achieved and one country is owed trillions of dollars and another country owes trillions of dollars and everything else is pretty much equal? That's a rhetorical question that anyone can answer but the real question is are you being honest with yourself when you think about that question.
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Old 07-30-2013, 02:48 AM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,440,907 times
Reputation: 9074
Quote:
Originally Posted by lycos679 View Post
Median income is just that, median income. The national median income is enough to live on in the vast majority of the country. Lower skilled jobs were enough to get by on and raise a family when the USA wasn't competing with other countries, before automation, and before women starting entering the workforce en mass, but that hasn't been the reality for 20-30 years. The American economy is based on intellectual skills and to compete you need those skills, otherwise you will get left behind.

I demand a recount, er...I'd like to know what these high school dropouts are doing that pays $25,000.
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