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Why is that, I wonder?
Some people acquire wealth by honest means and accept people of whatever income as equals. I would think wealth in itself is no reason to feel one way or another about a person's character.
Because there is no honest method of being greedy.
Because there is no honest method of being greedy.
Would you care to expand on that statement? If people did not have 'extra' funds they could not contribute to charity.
Is there any means of acquiring wealth that you approve of?
Working hard and smart
Inheritance
Gifts
Saving and spending wisely
Investing
Winning the lottery
I suppose you would exempt the lottery winners from your comment because most are just as broke as when they first won just a few years later. They end up giving it all away to friends and family who don't know them when the gravy train stops giving. In fact, a few years later, they are worse off because they've quit their jobs by then.
I would agree that the disparity between the rich and poor in this country, as well as that of salaries of management and employees, is widening as we speak and should be more reasonable, but I don't hate people for making money.
While there may be too much inequity, there also are the lazy unmotivated poor and the worker who works 70 hour weeks and never takes vacation.
Expressing contempt for an entire class of people is akin to racism in my book.
All people generally work for money, not out of altruism.
This ends up being true in most societys and in most jobs.
If you were to argue that there is too much greed in the country, I would agree. How many people have tobacco companies killed? Why do auto companies tolerate a few deaths due to defects in manufacture because paying off the relatives is cheaper than retooling factories? Our government is supposed to regulate business to protect us - but they seem now to be only a tool for big business.
But not every person with money is greedy or got it by excessive greed or by stepping on others on the way up. Some people are just damned good at what they do and dedicated to their craft and willing to sacrifice and put forth extra effort.
For every person who has 'made it' due to 'greed' we can easily find many equally 'greedy' poorer folks who chose not to push that extra bit in order to succeed so they just end up in the corner, whining.
Some people position themselves so that if opportunity comes knocking, they're ready. Others just sit and complain. Naturally, life will reward one more than the other.
If you don't like people having unfair advantage or our now having a privileged class, maybe you ought to start changing the system, rather than just festering in jealousy. If you decided to go that way, maybe I'd help you. Don't blame people because they wanted a better life and took the only course of action that our society gave them to accomplish that goal.
Last edited by goldengrain; 01-30-2010 at 08:13 AM..
You work for subsistence. To have a roof over your head and food on your table. You can still be charitable, by sacrificing something. If I can only afford half a pound of meat a day, for example, I can be charitable by only eating a quarter pound of meat instead. I can lower my intake.
If I'm already paying for rent and utilities, it's not going to cost me more to have two or three more people living with me.
By the way? It's "class-ism". And I'm not jealous, or envious. I wouldn't wish that sort of life on anyone--to be driven by money. I'm an ascetic.
To answer the OP, voters in the welfare state of Oregon consider you to be rich if you make $125,000 a year. The voters in Oregon also think it was a good idea to vote to tax companies on gross income. I wonder what Oregon will do when it has no tax base. Oregonians expecting handouts will have to move to another state.
You work for subsistence. To have a roof over your head and food on your table. You can still be charitable, by sacrificing something. If I can only afford half a pound of meat a day, for example, I can be charitable by only eating a quarter pound of meat instead. I can lower my intake.
If I'm already paying for rent and utilities, it's not going to cost me more to have two or three more people living with me.
By the way? It's "class-ism". And I'm not jealous, or envious. I wouldn't wish that sort of life on anyone--to be driven by money. I'm an ascetic.
Ah-ha. So we should work only until we cover the essentials and then quit for the day? I'll run that past my boss tomorrow. In our society there is not much of a social safety net. Many people work for a good education for their kids. I guess that's charity for another person. Many of us work to be sure we will have that sustenance in our old age, or in case something happens to us and we cannot work any longer. We often work for hopes of a more secure future or so that we will not be a burden on our children.
In your philosophy, should we settle to live in a bad neighborhood and send the kids to bad schools?
Should we not pay taxes - after all, that is over and above what we require for sustenance?
If we do not pay taxes, should we keep the kids out of taxpayer supported schools?
Should we let our abode fry in a fire and refuse taxpayer supported firemen?
Should we refuse police protection and not walk on city supported streets and not allow sanitation workers to pick up our trash?
What is your take on Ted Kazinski, I wonder?
Denmark was recently thought to have the happiest people. I think there is less stress in their lives and they tend to follow their dream as occupations and not so much chase the 'dollar'. It probably is a healthier life. There is less insecurity and though taxes are high, people are well looked after. They live more simply than a lot of us, and both of us might find that an agreeable trade off. They are homogeneous and probably think much alike towards their relationships with and responsibilities towards each other. There is no inflow of an alien culture with a different attitude of society and law and government.
But, if you choose to work here only to sustain yourself, it is, to me, an animal existence. No library? Little socialization, because how can you talk to people if you are not aware of the culture, so no friends? I think that can go one of two ways - you come to grips with yourself and find great peace, or more likely for more people, you look at those around you and become bitter and resentful and instead of letting go of others to run their own lives, point that accusatory finger at them.
Computers are not part of 'sustenance'. Is not the electricity used to run them wasted? Who is to decide what is essential for the life of the next guy? You obviously are picking and choosing.
Well, as far as computers go, things that would normally be offered on hard copy, like W-2's, are now being transferred to where you MUST get them online, or not get them at all. I have that particular issue this year. Is that employer "providing" me a W-2 by making it available to me online, if I don't have a way to access it?
Job applications are being made online too. Many things are going to only being available online. Even the TV news tells you that you can get more about the story they're talking about online. Print media is slowly dying.
I intend to work until the day I die. If I cannot work, there is no reason for me to live.
I intend to work until the day I die. If I cannot work, there is no reason for me to live.
I'm sorry that you are into that position, Kramar.
The sentiment you express about your connection to work is one they say that is very typical particularly of Americans.
I really pushed myself when young, forgoing a lot of the so called joys of youth, only because I wanted to be able to get a good paying job so I could save for the future. I saved up for college courses and only took them when I could pay for them fully. I studied towards a degree that was wanted by employers, and did not take all those liberal arts and even science courses that I would have enjoyed, had my parents been able to pay for me.
But I did not make the accumulation of wealth my goal and never fooled myself that the business environment exhibited the real values and joys of life. It was a means to an end. I really got tired of those long work weeks and weekends because, in my heart, quite frankly, I thought it was all crap and those who bought into the glories of the company or the system were all demonstrating some form of the Stockholm syndrome, convincing themselves that they adored those who held their brains and time captive.
Frankly, whilst my work partners were struggling 24/7 for their pittance of a raise at the end of year, I was taking advantage of the good Clinton years, investing and building up a nice nest egg. When times changed and we had the Bush downturn the company decided to outsource our function. All those dedicated servants were scrambling to find jobs, while I had a nice retirement nest egg. You can get so caught up in the job or perhaps keeping up with the Jones' that you can lose sight of what you really need. Society can blind you to your own best self interest. I have been very lucky, but I also made the best choices for me.
So, you're right in not buying into the hype, but unless the job has built in rewards, I don't think it is anything to live for. There are free lectures sometimes, and discussion groups like Socrates Cafes and library book clubs that cost nothing. Meet folks, make a few acquaintances. Maybe, over time, you will be lucky enough to meet what turns out to be a good friend.
Many people go to church for that sort of fellowship, but for me that would be hypocracy. My husband goes to a small church, 100 members. They publish their financial data every year. They have a visiting nurse volunteer group that has helped many in the area, as well as offering weekend meals because our local civil facility only gives meals on weekdays. They never proselytize, and give to anyone. There are much larger houses of worship in the area, they collect a lot more and do a lot less with it.
If you looked around, maybe you could find a small group like this - and don't just try once. My husband went a few times and now is buds with some ex-military guy.
Bottom line, I hate to hear that your work defines you and I really don't believe it. You just have not explored YOU enough, I think.
Please pardon me for butting into your business. I know I am probably way out of line.
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. In our society there is not much of a social safety net. Many people work for a good education for their kids. I guess that's charity for another person. Many of us work to be sure we will have that sustenance in our old age, or in case something happens to us and we cannot work any longer. We often work for hopes of a more secure future or so that we will not be a burden on our children. 