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Old 08-05-2013, 12:30 PM
 
6,331 posts, read 5,208,168 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimRom View Post
History 101: Marx wasn't a socialist, other than by association. You might want to sit down and read up on the differences between Socialism, Communism, and Marxism.
Marx was a socialist.

 
Old 08-05-2013, 12:50 PM
 
Location: Jacksonville, FL
11,143 posts, read 10,704,481 times
Reputation: 9799
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Draper View Post
Marx was a socialist.
No, he wasn't. His views were so far away from socialists that he ended up having a political ideology named after him. Look up the difference between scientific socialism (espoused by Marx and Engels) vs utopian socialism. If anything, Marx was closer to being a communist than a socialist, and actually believed that capitalism led to socialism which in turn led to communism.
 
Old 08-05-2013, 01:01 PM
 
3,537 posts, read 2,734,435 times
Reputation: 1034
Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
RWNJs have really no understanding of politics left of the far right. If 1 is far left, 3 is center, and 5 is far right, everyone from 4 to 1 is a leftist according to them. I'm a 3 but I get accused of being a "librul" all the time by our Libertarian (such a false ideology I've come to find out since the general election) Heroes
Please do not think the RWers you speak about are libertarian.

They are so far from libertarian.
 
Old 08-05-2013, 02:16 PM
 
6,331 posts, read 5,208,168 times
Reputation: 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimRom View Post
No, he wasn't. His views were so far away from socialists that he ended up having a political ideology named after him. Look up the difference between scientific socialism (espoused by Marx and Engels) vs utopian socialism. If anything, Marx was closer to being a communist than a socialist, and actually believed that capitalism led to socialism which in turn led to communism.
Still a socialist.
 
Old 08-05-2013, 02:27 PM
 
Location: deafened by howls of 'racism!!!'
52,708 posts, read 34,525,339 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uggabugga View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Draper View Post
Are people like Joe the plumber lumpens, by Marx standards?

He is part of the working class, but he will never reach class consciousness
how does one 'achieve class conciousness,' savoir faire?
savoir fa... er, i mean donny - do you have an answer for us?
 
Old 08-05-2013, 02:43 PM
 
6,331 posts, read 5,208,168 times
Reputation: 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
I guess so. I'm not a Marxist (surprise, surprise, my fellow Libertarians) so I wouldn't know , exactly. But, I know people like Joe the Plumber seriously lack class consciousness, supporting policies that don't benefit them but their overlords who do not have their best interests at heart. Hmm, I suppose you can say he's a Lumpen, while the people who are small business owners who think they are "in" with the 0.1% are the Petty Bourgeois, another group who lack class consciousness.
Well on the one hand, Marx said that a segment of the working class would never reach class consciousness and might be even be an obstacle to reaching a classless society.

The lumpen were generally described as dregs. Did he also view the more productive, yet equally clueless working class members as lumpens?
 
Old 08-05-2013, 03:40 PM
 
Location: OC/LA
3,830 posts, read 4,661,125 times
Reputation: 2214
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoomBen View Post
Please do not think the RWers you speak about are libertarian.

They are so far from libertarian.
Agreed.
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