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So why is the plant it can come from illegal? Makes no sense. We're not talking about opiates from poppy plants or cocaine here.
Problem solved!!
The plant is problematic because anyone can grow it and then it becomes an issue of keeping it out of the hands of children. As a prescription drug, it can be controlled. It only goes into households where there is medicinal reason to have it. Unfortunately, that does not mean that kids don't get into it in those households, as they might pain killers now, but with the plant it could be anywhere. Access would just be too easy for kids.
Because of easy access I think you'd have more kids trying it and trying it younger. After all, is your neighbor going to notice one branch missing from one of their plants?
I'm glad to hear that they're offering it through a pharmacy in pill form. That should put an end to this debate. There is now no need at all for smoking pot (which will save your lungs too. Given pot is usually smoked without a filter, it's worse than cigarettes. The only saving grace is you don't smoke a pack a day.). You can just get a prescription. This is the way I've always thought this should be handled. A script for those who need it and treat it like an illegal drug for those who don't the way we would pain killers now. You can get pain killers from a pharmacy but you cannot sell them to your neighbor.
Also the pill form opens the door to doing blind studies (it would be hard to do a blind study with joints) which will put the issue of whether or not it is medicinal to bed once and for all and they'll be able to identify the people who will benefit from it.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 08-14-2013 at 04:25 PM..
LOL. Sorry. I'm ADD and my brain runs 12,000 MPH, which is probably why I'd love it if they made speeding legal. I understand why they don't though.
I have ADD as well, and marijuana actually helps immensely with my focus... if I could smoke before work, I would, since it would probably get me finishing deadlines more quickly! But I know better than that, and wouldn't jeopardize my career by going to work impaired. You really should try it, though, as research shows it's an effective treatment for the condition (and with fewer side effects than the likes of Ritalin). It would also help with your sleep troubles, and has no chance of overdose unlike your preferred Xanax.
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I see two huge issues to legalizing pot. The first is access. If it's legal to grow in your back yard, what's to stop your neighbor's 9 year old from helping himself?
It's called parenting. Why is the neighbor's kid wandering into your backyard unsupervised in the first place? Besides, what if your kid (or the neighbor's kid) gets into your bottle of Xanax or liquor? I assume if you're a responsible parent, you will take measures to keep that from happening... and if it does happen, you punish them as you see fit and teach them why it was a bad thing. Heck, my parents weren't even drinkers, and still had a few bottles I raided as a teen! I survived the experience, lol.
Regardless, it's not your or my job to ensure people are good parents... and I think marijuana users/growers are the least of our worries, considering how alcohol and (physical, emotional, and/or sexual) abuse destroy more families than anything.
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And what do we do about the fact that there is no way to measure whether someone is too high to drive or work?
There are a few ways to tell, one of which (saliva test) was mentioned by another poster above. And honestly, if you're able to pull off "I'm completely sober" in front of a cop or your boss, you probably AREN'T impaired to the point where it matters. If you are bombed, it's usually pretty obvious to anyone with a brain and working eyes.
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In all honesty, would you want your child's teacher using pot knowing that the only thing we can discern is whether or not they've used recently? As a parent, you would not know whether your child's teacher used that morning or two days before. You'd just know they use.
Couldn't care less, as long as they're capable of doing what they're paid to do. Their job is simply to teach children, and if they can do that after a night (or even morning) of partying, more power to them. Having worked in the educational field myself, I can tell you for sure many of them DO smoke pot - more of them drink on their nights off, though. Teachers are still humans, often times young adults, and have every right to let loose on their own time.
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While I don't care if alcohol is legal or not, at least we can figure out if you're too drunk to drive or work and alcohol doesn't grow in our back yards. I see legalized pot as a nightmare to control and I see that as being bad for society.
That's just your opinion, and one that is mostly proven wrong by the states and countries that have already legalized it. Can you show us evidence of how society has collapsed in California, The Netherlands, etc? If not, you are merely projecting your own (mostly unfounded) fears.
And no, liquor doesn't grow in the backyard - it just "grows" at every liquor store, supermarket, mini mart, etc, where anyone with a few bucks can get it. Not to mention, in some areas/stores you don't even need ID to get it! So much easier than growing your own weed, which even among us legal users, very few people do anyway. You know how difficult it is to grow GOOD quality marijuana? I've never even attempted, as it's much easier and less time-consuming to get it from the local cannabis club (and probably better than anything I could produce).
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I wish I had that bio engineered bug that removed the high while keeping the medicinal benefit (assuming they actually exist as one possibility is people just like the high). That would end this argument once and for all.
It has been isolated, but in that form only helps with very few conditions... I've tried Marinol, and it's about as useless as eating a piece of candy.
I have ADD as well, and marijuana actually helps immensely with my focus... if I could smoke before work, I would, since it would probably get me finishing deadlines more quickly! But I know better than that, and wouldn't jeopardize my career by going to work impaired. You really should try it, though, as research shows it's an effective treatment for the condition (and with fewer side effects than the likes of Ritalin). It would also help with your sleep troubles, and has no chance of overdose unlike your preferred Xanax.
It's called parenting. Why is the neighbor's kid wandering into your backyard unsupervised in the first place? Besides, what if your kid (or the neighbor's kid) gets into your bottle of Xanax or liquor? I assume if you're a responsible parent, you will take measures to keep that from happening... and if it does happen, you punish them as you see fit and teach them why it was a bad thing. Heck, my parents weren't even drinkers, and still had a few bottles I raided as a teen! I survived the experience, lol.
Regardless, it's not your or my job to ensure people are good parents... and I think marijuana users/growers are the least of our worries, considering how alcohol and (physical, emotional, and/or sexual) abuse destroy more families than anything.
There are a few ways to tell, one of which (saliva test) was mentioned by another poster above. And honestly, if you're able to pull off "I'm completely sober" in front of a cop or your boss, you probably AREN'T impaired to the point where it matters. If you are bombed, it's usually pretty obvious to anyone with a brain and working eyes.
Couldn't care less, as long as they're capable of doing what they're paid to do. Their job is simply to teach children, and if they can do that after a night (or even morning) of partying, more power to them. Having worked in the educational field myself, I can tell you for sure many of them DO smoke pot - more of them drink on their nights off, though. Teachers are still humans, often times young adults, and have every right to let loose on their own time.
That's just your opinion, and one that is mostly proven wrong by the states and countries that have already legalized it. Can you show us evidence of how society has collapsed in California, The Netherlands, etc? If not, you are merely projecting your own (mostly unfounded) fears.
And no, liquor doesn't grow in the backyard - it just "grows" at every liquor store, supermarket, mini mart, etc, where anyone with a few bucks can get it. Not to mention, in some areas/stores you don't even need ID to get it! So much easier than growing your own weed, which even among us legal users, very few people do anyway. You know how difficult it is to grow GOOD quality marijuana? I've never even attempted, as it's much easier and less time-consuming to get it from the local cannabis club (and probably better than anything I could produce).
It has been isolated, but in that form only helps with very few conditions... I've tried Marinol, and it's about as useless as eating a piece of candy.
You have to show ID to buy liquor. You don't have to show ID to pick a weed in your neighbors yard.
AS to your claims to the medicinal purposes of weed, please post links to the blind studies supporting your claims so I can decide for myself. As things are I have no idea of you're saying what you're saying just to justify getting high. I don't know if it's a placebo effect. You're saying something helps with ADD holds no merit. Please prove that it does.
The plant is problematic because anyone can grow it and then it becomes an issue of keeping it out of the hands of children. As a prescription drug, it can be controlled. It only goes into households where there is medicinal reason to have it. Unfortunately, that does not mean that kids don't get into it in those households, as they might pain killers now, but with the plant it could be anywhere. Access would just be too easy for kids.
Because of easy access I think you'd have more kids trying it and trying it younger. After all, is your neighbor going to notice one branch missing from one of their plants?
I'm glad to hear that they're offering it through a pharmacy in pill form. That should put an end to this debate. There is now no need at all for smoking pot (which will save your lungs too. Given pot is usually smoked without a filter, it's worse than cigarettes. The only saving grace is you don't smoke a pack a day.). You can just get a prescription. This is the way I've always thought this should be handled. A script for those who need it and treat it like an illegal drug for those who don't the way we would pain killers now. You can get pain killers from a pharmacy but you cannot sell them to your neighbor.
Nope, problem NOT solved. Just wrote above, I've tried Marinol and it has little effect on most conditions... the intoxicating effects ARE what help in some cases, and while I don't know all the chemical mumbo jumbo, I do believe Marinol (or the like) eliminates the chemical components that assist with nausea, wasting, muscle relaxation, etc. It's been available for some 20+ years now, and hasn't replaced marijuana yet - so don't get too excited!
As for the lung damage, there are non-smoking ways to get it into your system - edibles, vaporizers, etc. I know many people who only use these forms, since they don't like to put anything in their lungs... personally I'm not a fan, but they are available at the clubs and easy to make yourself. And don't give me the "kids will try it younger" argument, because I think everyone knows the countries with low/no drinking ages have fewer issues with alcoholism in youth. Have you ever been to Europe or Asia? I have, and they think we're silly with our glamorizing of liquor. So based on that evidence, I'd say the opposite effect would occur within a generation.
You have to show ID to buy liquor. You don't have to show ID to pick a weed in your neighbors yard.
I bought liquor as a teen with few problems, and if they did card, there was always "shoulder tapping" or getting an older friend/sibling to buy it for you. Not to mention, most kids' parents had a liquor cabinet!
FYI: You have to show ID to get LEGAL marijuana from a club, and they're much stricter than any liquor store I've ever been inside. They finally started letting me in (to my favorite club) without checking my license every time, but that was only after I'd been coming for two years. TWO YEARS. And I have bright red curly hair, so it's not like I have a "common look" or anything.
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AS to your claims to the medicinal purposes of weed, please post links to the blind studies supporting your claims so I can decide for myself. As things are I have no idea of you're saying what you're saying just to justify getting high. I don't know if it's a placebo effect. You're saying something helps with ADD holds no merit. Please prove that it does.
You really aren't aware that this has been studied & proven for DECADES now??? I thought everyone knew this stuff by now, so it's hilarious you would think it's just my "personal claims" or "blind studies."
I have to get back to work, but will try to post a few good links later... although considering your educational background, one would think you could find this research yourself.
Ironically, one of the medical benefits of marijuana is that it helps people with ADD by improving their concentration.
Yup, I just said that!
It also helps with sleep disturbances, so Ivory would actually be an excellent candidate for medical marijuana... I don't know where they live, but here in CA it would be stupid to keep using Xanax & alcohol in favor of marijuana for these conditions. Just about any doctor would agree, or at least mine did.
I didn't learn this from studies, I learned it through experience. Unlike you I don't go railing about topics I know nothing about. But feel free to start here.
4. Nearly all medicines have toxic, potentially lethal effects. But marijuana is not such a substance. There is no record in the extensive medical literature describing a proven, documented cannabis-induced fatality.
5. This is a remarkable statement. First, the record on marijuana encompasses 5,000 years of human experience. Second, marijuana is now used daily by enormous numbers of people throughout the world. Estimates suggest that from twenty million to fifty million Americans routinely, albeit illegally, smoke marijuana without the benefit of direct medical supervision. Yet, despite this long history of use and the extraordinarily high numbers of social smokers, there are simply no credible medical reports to suggest that consuming marijuana has caused a single death.
6. By contrast aspirin, a commonly used, over-the-counter medicine, causes hundreds of deaths each year. - See more at: Annual Causes of Death in the United States | Drug War Facts
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In 2010, there were 38,329 drug overdose deaths in the United States; most (22 134; 57.7%) involved pharmaceuticals; 9429 (24.6%) involved only unspecified drugs. Of the pharmaceutical-related overdose deaths, 16,451 (74.3%) were unintentional, 3780 (17.1%) were suicides, and 1868 (8.4%) were of undetermined intent. Opioids (16,651; 75.2%), benzodiazepines (6497; 29.4%), antidepressants (3889; 17.6%), and antiepileptic and antiparkinsonism drugs (1717; 7.8%) were the pharmaceuticals (alone or in combination with other drugs) most commonly involved in pharmaceutical overdose deaths. Among overdose deaths involving opioid analgesics, the pharmaceuticals most often also involved in these deaths were benzodiazepines (5017; 30.1%), antidepressants (2239; 13.4%), antiepileptic and antiparkinsonism drugs (1125; 6.8%), and antipsychotics and neuroleptics (783; 4.7%). - See more at: Annual Causes of Death in the United States | Drug War Facts
So, zero deaths from mj ever, vs. over 6000 from xanax-like drugs in one year alone. I can't even believe we are having this discussion. It is so obvious that uneducated people continue to be affected by the reefer madness propaganda.
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Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
You have to show ID to buy liquor. You don't have to show ID to pick a weed in your neighbors yard.
AS to your claims to the medicinal purposes of weed, please post links to the blind studies supporting your claims so I can decide for myself. As things are I have no idea of you're saying what you're saying just to justify getting high. I don't know if it's a placebo effect. You're saying something helps with ADD holds no merit. Please prove that it does.
most kids just raid the parents booze & and medicine cabinets or the other trick just get someone of age to buy it for ya.. if a kid wants to get booze no problem..
Just to get you started, Ivory, before I head back to work - here's one article I just pulled up with a simple search, and it's a scholarly/peer-reviewed one from the Journal of Clinical Oncology (so you know it isn't bogus). Just an abstract is available off Google, but it should give you the basic idea of how Oncologists feel on the matter. And this is from 1990, so I bet the percentage in favor would be even higher today.
Abstract A random-sample, anonymous survey of the members of the American Society of Clinical Oncology (ASCO) was conducted in spring 1990 measuring the attitudes and experiences of American oncologists concerning the antiemetic use of marijuana in cancer chemotherapy patients. The survey was mailed to about one third (N = 2,430) of all United States-based ASCO members and yielded a response rate of 43% (1,035). More than 44% of the respondents report recommending the (illegal) use of marijuana for the control of emesis to at least one cancer chemotherapy patient. Almost one half (48%) would prescribe marijuana to some of their patients if it were legal. As a group, respondents considered smoked marijuana to be somewhat more effective than the legally available oral synthetic dronabinol ([THC] Marinol; Unimed, Somerville, NJ) and roughly as safe. Of the respondents who expressed an opinion, a majority (54%) thought marijuana should be available by prescription. These results bear on the question of whether marijuana has a "currently accepted medical use," at issue in an ongoing administrative and legal dispute concerning whether marijuana in smoked form should be available by prescription along with synthetic THC in oral form. This survey demonstrates that oncologists' experience with the medical use of marijuana is more extensive, and their opinions of it are more favorable, than the regulatory authorities appear to have believed.
(I'll provide some research articles on the effects for ADD later)
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or the other trick just get someone of age to buy it for ya.. if a kid wants to get booze no problem..