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Old 08-08-2007, 09:04 PM
 
763 posts, read 1,293,871 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roo50 View Post
The issue of global warming IMHO is currently political, it's a left-wing issue and a stance that at least to some extent will guarantee them votes.

The whole Al Gore thing is a joke, purely motivated by politics, irrespective of his track record and so called passion directed at this ''crisis''

I have listened to many overseas and local radio broadcasts where respected scientists AND conservationists have clearly stated it's all baloney.
Naturally, I have heard the other side but the fact remains........

There is NO hard evidence to support the theory that certain politicians and the media portray.
There are theories but logic dictates that IF we were indeed causing global warming and it was that cut and dry, not to mention actually happening, scientists from all corners of the globe would in fact come together and it would be a united assessment.

This is far from what’s happening.
You're wrong on all counts, but fortunately you are part of an infinitesimally small group in comparison to the many thousands of scientists and hundreds of millions of people globally who understand and experience the human activities that contribute to the global warming problem that will—without ANY doubt—exacerbate its effects.

There have been so many threads about this subject that it’s tiresome to keep going over it again and again. See the thread titled Fred on Global Warming. I’m an activist and willing to discuss the subject as many times as it’s required, but because there is already a thread that’s active, I’ll just suggest reading the posts in that one.
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Old 08-08-2007, 09:08 PM
 
Location: Spots Wyoming
18,696 posts, read 35,415,173 times
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Isn't that the pits? I've seen thread after thread the covers the same topic. It's sickening. I'm about to move on because there's questions that have been answered over and over and over and over again.
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Old 08-08-2007, 09:24 PM
 
763 posts, read 1,293,871 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewToCA View Post
I generally agree that global warming is real, and about 90% convinced it is at least partially due to things we do.

A couple of issues though. I think a lot of folks who reject it do so because it has been framed as an extension of the "tree hugger" folks, meaning Republicans who support this as a problem become instantly stigmatized within their party. To address it also causes immediate lifestyle inconveniences, and many folks need to be convinced of dire consequences before they will do things for the greater good as opposed to their personal gratification.

On the other side of the fence, the folks who believe it is real generally go to the Prius side of the discussion, instead of looking for technological solutions possible without making this into a quasi religious issue.

This is one of the reasons I can't identify with either party, I think both miss the boat on a lot of issues, including this one.
Your points are fact and you’re correct that they distort what could and certainly should be a combined effort to address the many problems that contribute to the damage we do that adds to what might have occurred naturally.

I’m a tree hugger but not an enviro-whacko. I’ve often mentioned in discussions on the subject of environmental activism that the extremes of enviro-whackos and polluter-whackos seem to frame discussions and they get wild and woolly in many cases. But without these extremes we don’t end up with something workable in the middle.

I’m of the opinion that this global warming issue is a struggle driven by big industry and their debtors in government at all levels who are trying desperately to keep Americans addicted to fossil fuels because there are TRILLIONS of $$$$$ to be made before our reserves are used up to the point they’re of no use because we’ve since had to move on.

The other extreme is using all-out methods to keep the opposing side from getting its way through the empowerment that the opponents—gov’t/mega-corps—have given themselves.

And through all this are America’s citizens more concerned with being identified either with a political ideology they detest or with those truly awful environmentalists.

Everybody who hasn’t already needs to wake up and smell the fumes.
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Old 08-09-2007, 01:24 AM
 
Location: The best country in the world: the USA
1,497 posts, read 4,374,366 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cahpsuth View Post
I've read so many conflicting reports and seen so many TV programmes about global warming. I can't seem to make up my mind if we are ruining the planet or whether it's just going along as it should.
No it is a liberal fantasy to get attention and votes. The science is NOT there and IF it was for reral, would liberals like Edwards, Al Gore, Kennedy Jr. etc fly back and forth of polluting private jets? Would they travel in non-Hybrid SUV caravans back and forth? Would they ride limos everywhere they go?

Oh and here is the best. If liberals cared about the environment, would Al Gore spend THOUSANDS of Dollars a month in his home in Tennessee??

Of course the whole thing is a sham. No one wants polluted skies and dirty rivers, but the whole Global Warming thing is a sham. If it was real, these liberals would not live like they do, polluting non-stop and doing what they do.

Oh did yopu also see the that "Global Warming" temperature monitors are all located next to heating vents or next to a place where they burn tires or near A/C exhausts... you know places that produce heat and cause the termometers to read higher temps?
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Old 08-09-2007, 06:02 AM
 
25,455 posts, read 23,273,196 times
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Is the earth getting warmer? Yes indeed
Will the earth cool off and have harsh winters again here in PA, yes, indeed...

Does weather run a pattern? Yes, and changes; as we look back in history, the Earth when evolving, had very violent weather patterns...and is still evolving....does man have anything to do with these cycles of weather patterns....I think very little...

Yes, the ice is melting...and yes, our winters here in PA have been very mild...yes, there was an ice age, and yes, it slowly melted...

There are stress factors all over the world (earth) causing volcanos, water spouts, hurricanes....tornadoes, etc...but the bottom line is, the earth evolves, it changes....and according to the inner layers of earth and the earths core is hot...and could rupture a giant volcano, like the size of Yellowstone National Park....which could change weather patterns again, due to the mass of smoke clouds...cooling the earth...

It appears that the process of creating planets, by gravity draws particles together, resulting in mass friction and collisions, creating heat in the core. That heat dissipates out into space as infrared radiation. A crust then forms and holds the heat in. Heat moves slowly through the crust, but not fast enough to heat the air much. It's mostly the sun that heats the atmosphere. However, the earth's core does add significant heat to bodies of water including oceans and lakes.

there are other factors involved, like tectonic plates...the sun and it's explosions....heat in the core of our plant...there are coral reefs presently dying from over heating...but it is not caused by anything man is doing, more so, by the earth's core.

There is also new evidence that the earth's core heats in a cyclic manner...
the earth's magnetic field also shows variations which correlate with global temps...and the heat conducting through the mantle of the Earth...

http://www.gsaaj.org/articles/TempPaperv1n22007.pdf

So, I do not buy Global Warming...

remember when Mout St. Helen spewed her vile clouds into the air...I can remember that summer, b/c I worked outside...it was predicted that her clouds of smoke would travel east and they did...and every day seemed cooler and overcasted as a result. I remember that summer having clouds every day, which effected our earth's temperatures....it was a little cooler...

I believe the earth effects it's own weather, and atmospheric situations, like the sun's explosions, etc., leads to climatic changes..but there has always been increasing and decreasing weather patterns...since the beginning of time. Earth folks in my way of thinking is a star, and eventually all stars burn out...and when earth burns out, it will burst into nothingness and will probably change our entire solar system...but unfortuantly, man cannot accept the unknown, man, must always have a reason or answer...he tends to sometimes over analysis, and to man, his rationalizing then, becomes real...and that is what unfortuantely happens to people like Al Gore...and the rest...there will be weather patterns, changes in weather, increasing, decreasing temperatures....and catostrophic events due to it...which man cannot control....but would like to think that he can? All man can do is either learn to adapt, or be enhilated...?

I believe Gore really does believe his theory
we all believe in something...unfortunately, we can't all be right...and our species will not always be....

Last edited by cremebrulee; 08-09-2007 at 06:18 AM..
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Old 08-09-2007, 06:22 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,505 posts, read 49,547,847 times
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CO2 is a greenhouse gas that caused the atmosphere to retain heat. this is not disputed. We are generating billions of tons of the stuff by burning coal and oil at a very great profit (trillions) for a relativly few investors. The warming atmosphere and oceans will raise sea levels, creat more intense and frequent storms (also uncontested). This will greatly inconvienence, as in drown, about a billion people living near or below the existing sea level.

Decreasing the burning of carbon fuels might (if the increased concentrations have not already tipped the balance) decrease the warming and the danger but would cost the potential profit to the carbon fuel suppliers. Who do you think. given the current economics and attitudes, will set the energy policy? The people set to make the trillions or the billions that might loose their homes. I'm betting on the trillions because they will be rich enough to move their industries and themselves to higher ground and have proven that they are ready to damage anyone for thier own benefit.
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Old 08-09-2007, 06:37 AM
 
25,455 posts, read 23,273,196 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
CO2 is a greenhouse gas that caused the atmosphere to retain heat. this is not disputed. We are generating billions of tons of the stuff by burning coal and oil at a very great profit (trillions) for a relativly few investors. The warming atmosphere and oceans will raise sea levels, creat more intense and frequent storms (also uncontested). This will greatly inconvienence, as in drown, about a billion people living near or below the existing sea level.

Decreasing the burning of carbon fuels might (if the increased concentrations have not already tipped the balance) decrease the warming and the danger but would cost the potential profit to the carbon fuel suppliers. Who do you think. given the current economics and attitudes, will set the energy policy? The people set to make the trillions or the billions that might loose their homes. I'm betting on the trillions because they will be rich enough to move their industries and themselves to higher ground and have proven that they are ready to damage anyone for thier own benefit.
Even if your right, and I'm not disputing your not, but do you actually think, companies who have so much to loose by your suggestion, would actually do this, to save the earth, when they figure, they're only going to be around a few more years, so why not take all they can?

Its the same thing with Bush's alternative fuel proposal...in 30 years? yeah right? We could start switching right now, but the oil companies would have way to much to loose, why, we'd put them outa business....why would anyone cut their own throats....especially man?
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Old 08-09-2007, 06:38 AM
 
6,760 posts, read 10,183,620 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
The warming atmosphere and oceans will raise sea levels, creat more intense and frequent storms (also uncontested). This will greatly inconvienence, as in drown, about a billion people living near or below the existing sea level.
Are these people tied to trees, or maybe unaware of how to WALK? The sea rise per year is measured in millimeters, and even the IPCC has predicted a rise of less than one meter by 2050 as a worse case scenario. This means that unless a person is 100% ignorant, they will notice the water moving at 1/100,000th of a snails pace and have months or years to move. The seas have risen 500m in the last 14 years, so the amount of less than 1m in a worse case scenario over half a century hardly seems like a catastrophic event.

More intense and frequent storms uncontested? Lol, uncontested by the most diehard of alarmist. The 2004 and 2005 hurricane seasons sent everyone into a frenzy, but 2006 was very mild, and 2007 is off to a quiet start. So what happens, weather reports from around the globe are brought forth and sensationalized as a sign of global warming. Oddly though, we have had far fewer severe winter storms and brutal cold patterns, which has saved far more lives than a few heat waves have taken.
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Old 08-09-2007, 06:43 AM
 
25,455 posts, read 23,273,196 times
Reputation: 15310
Hey, that means eventually I'll have ocean front property.... maybe

Just trying to find the humor in all of this....

I remember as a child, them stating that eventaully the entire east coast would be under water, due to temperatures rising along with oceans and lakes.

and the entire west coast of Calif. would be below sea level due to the great earth quake...

and the entire easst coast is also at risk for a great earth quake. Is it true...it's possible...but not in our life time...but I do agree, we are a generation that is starting to see a change in weather patterns.

does anyone remember the huge snow storms we used to have in Southeastern Pennsylvania...?
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Old 08-09-2007, 09:11 AM
 
Location: Oak Park, IL
404 posts, read 513,476 times
Reputation: 51
You can go to the National weather service and view annual average temperatures for every year since the beginning of weather tracking and get the same results, that yes. The average temperature is rising.

You can go the various polar research sites and get the average amount of icepack at the polar caps, and you get the same information, the icecaps are melting and they are continuing to melt.

If raw data and the trends are not enough for you to know that the Earth is heating up you can get visual information such as photographs of the polar ice from the 20's, 30's, 40's and so on and compare them to current pictures and see that yes. they are melting.

Is this a problem? Not for me. I don't have any kids so I'm not effecting my child's future by not caring or doing anything about it, like requesting congress to make policy changes to reduce damaging pollutants.

Are we the one's causing it? I think we have a hand in the mix, and I am one to do what ever I can to reduce my carbon footprint, by using less electricity more efficiently, buying a 4 or 6 cylinder car instead of an 8 cylinder tank or gas guzzling SUV. And should things work out as well as I expect and hope they will, I would like to add solar panels, or wind turbines to my house to further reduce the amount of oil and gas I need to survive.

Finally, planting 20 nice green trees will reduce carbon emissions produced by my car through absorbtion, and this will continue long after I am gone along with the solar panels and wind turbines that I may have had installed.

What people don't understand that it's not just the gas and oil they use that isn't the only issue here. It's that packaging, the house, condo or apartment, the food, the trinkets and baubles they own purchase and throw away to live, right down to the number of times they flush the toilets, and times they empty their trash cans that is also part of the equation.

I personally think global warming is real, that the air we breath is very polluted by the gas and oil we burn to the point that it will require and major dying off off several hundred million people for the earth to turn this problem around itself even with the help of more efficient policies. And that the earth is in orbit around a flaming ball of nuclear fuel with an unsteady wobble, tilt, rotation and orbit, and that the major cause of global warming is the sun.

Add all of this up, and we are one wasteful society who could care less when it comes down to their own wastefulness.
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