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Old 08-12-2013, 03:54 PM
 
246 posts, read 421,825 times
Reputation: 643

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Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
That kids in some cultures attend school 8 hours a day, 5-6 days a week and spend an additional 8 hours a night on homework and preparation for the next day, probably does not factor into it.
Hours of homework, busywork, and rote memorization do not do much to improve learning to say nothing about the impact to overall intelligence or creativity.

But getting a cute missive off on CD at the expense of American kids probably made you feel smart though.

The Myth About Homework - TIME

http://learning.blogs.nytimes.com/20...ou-learn/?_r=0

Too Much Homework: Bad for Kids? - Parenting.com
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Old 08-12-2013, 05:18 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,591,490 times
Reputation: 18521
Quote:
Originally Posted by AKA Bubbleup View Post
Cool, now to find a location where I can sell 360 hamburgers and hour :-)

Many Mickey D's locations in this city, do double that.
You will see many national burger joints, go this route for consistency.
Not for less cost in overhead.
One person to load and keep stock and one to keep it maintained periodically, along with someone to clean it. Then all you need is an order taker. or that can be one and the same, if there is a slow period.
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Old 08-12-2013, 05:40 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,665 posts, read 19,961,065 times
Reputation: 7315
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordBalfor View Post
... as opposed to the alternative of working at a wage you can't survive on?


Development of that machine has NOTHING to do with the fast food workers strike. It takes a longgggg time to develop such a machine and it was clearly in development long before fast food workers went on strike (try to use a little commons sense will ya'?).

This is simply just one more job - like factory assemblers and checkout clerks - that's will eventually be almost completely replaced by machines.

Ken
Lower wages will keep more employed, Ken. One aspect of my job is approving capital requests, btw. Its a simple calculation when it is robotics or automation w/o new market share. Most corps have a maximum payback period allowed to approve it, usually very short, 1-2 years max. So if Mr. Robot costs $90k, to meet a 2 year payback they need to cut $45k annually in labor/benes to meet 2 year max. If the employee is making $10 gross, and gets Health Care, Employer FICA, SUI, Workers comp, vacation, etc..that will take them to the mid-30s per year. Cut out 2-save 70k/year -you get a robot. Cut out 1, and its a no go.Now the employees pay goes to $15 per hour, benes take him to $45k. Cut one employee with the robot, you hit the 2 year max, you got your robot.

Robots do not become inevitable until the math of the payback (aka ROI) works.
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Old 08-12-2013, 05:44 PM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,782 posts, read 17,350,760 times
Reputation: 7990
It must have been 20 years ago I read that Burger King created an experimental fully automated store. IIRC it was in Wisconsin. But it obviously was not cost effective, because Burger King still uses humans. It's still all largely done the same way as when I worked fast food 30 years ago. I think the last big fast food innovation was the headset for drive thru workers.

OP makes a good point about libs raising the cost of human labor, but I still think robotics is an order of magnitude more difficult than the computerization that has happened over the past 25 years or so. Eventually it will happen but I tend to think it will take a fairly long time.

But robots will not require lunch breaks, maternity leave, FMLA, harassment lawsuits, health insurance, parking lots, sick days, etc. No complications from on-the-job love affairs. Just highly skilled, highly trained Singaporan, Finnish, and other educationally successful nationalities to design, build, and maintain them. Detroit public school products need not apply.
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Old 08-12-2013, 05:45 PM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
20,460 posts, read 26,317,985 times
Reputation: 7627
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
Lower wages will keep more employed, Ken. One aspect of my job is approving capital requests, btw. Its a simple calculation when it is robotics or automation w/o new market share. Most corps have a maximum payback period allowed to approve it, usually very short, 1-2 years max. So if Mr. Robot costs $90k, to meet a 2 year payback they need to cut $45k annually in labor/benes to meet 2 year max. If the employee is making $10 gross, and gets Health Care, Employer FICA, SUI, Workers comp, vacation, etc..that will take them to the mid-30s per year. Cut out 2-save 70k/year -you get a robot. Cut out 1, and its a no go.Now the employees pay goes to $15 per hour, benes take him to $45k. Cut one employee with the robot, you hit the 2 year max, you got your robot.

Robots do not become inevitable until the math of the payback (aka ROI) works.
Agreed - but with technology costs generally dropping, that ROI period will get shorter and shorter until the replacement takes place.
That's what history has shown us.
It's pretty inevitable.

And, it's ONLY good to keep people employed if they can actually LIVE on the wages. Otherwise it's pretty pointless for people to work (and they will realize that).

Ken
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Old 08-12-2013, 05:51 PM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,868 posts, read 24,375,785 times
Reputation: 8672
Computers will surpass our processing power. When that happens, they will begin to process visual stimulation at the same rates as us, with the ability to not forget anything.

translate that to robotics, and you can see where things are going.

realistically, we will need a sustainable food source and we will live in a world similar to a star trek tyoe environment. When no one has to work on anything other then what they want, and not worrying about startvation is a good thing. Advanced robotics will pave the way for advanced colonization on the moon and perhaps mars. Let them go and build the habitat.

Or it could turn out like the matrix.
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Old 08-12-2013, 06:06 PM
 
45,203 posts, read 26,414,151 times
Reputation: 24961
The workforce needs to be flexible, which means not subsidizing unemployment, eliminating min. wage and getting the government out of education and technology where they create false demand and prop up industries with no value.

Henry Fords assembly line created new jobs while eliminating old.
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Old 08-12-2013, 06:23 PM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,868 posts, read 24,375,785 times
Reputation: 8672
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
The workforce needs to be flexible, which means not subsidizing unemployment, eliminating min. wage and getting the government out of education and technology where they create false demand and prop up industries with no value.

Henry Fords assembly line created new jobs while eliminating old.
I've been on unemployment myself. I wouldn't support its repeal or any shrinking of it. I also think federally funded education is a good thing, and helps to create an engineering base like no other.

But you make a lot of good points, and many of them I support. I support ending oil, gas, crop, and electrical subsidy. Many others.

Not all government is bad. Government has saved this country a time or three. Just needs the reigns pulled back on harder
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Old 08-12-2013, 06:41 PM
 
1,130 posts, read 2,023,706 times
Reputation: 878
Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post
It must have been 20 years ago I read that Burger King created an experimental fully automated store. IIRC it was in Wisconsin. But it obviously was not cost effective, because Burger King still uses humans. It's still all largely done the same way as when I worked fast food 30 years ago. I think the last big fast food innovation was the headset for drive thru workers.

OP makes a good point about libs raising the cost of human labor, but I still think robotics is an order of magnitude more difficult than the computerization that has happened over the past 25 years or so. Eventually it will happen but I tend to think it will take a fairly long time.

But robots will not require lunch breaks, maternity leave, FMLA, harassment lawsuits, health insurance, parking lots, sick days, etc. No complications from on-the-job love affairs. Just highly skilled, highly trained Singaporan, Finnish, and other educationally successful nationalities to design, build, and maintain them. Detroit public school products need not apply.

I don't think it will take nearly as long as you think. Automation costs are coming down. Even in small-town America where I live (~5000 people, largest municipality in the county) the local McDonalds already has an automate soda machine for the drive-thru. I have no doubt other tasks at McDonalds will be automated soon.
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Old 08-12-2013, 06:46 PM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
20,460 posts, read 26,317,985 times
Reputation: 7627
Quote:
Originally Posted by madpaddy View Post
I don't think it will take nearly as long as you think. Automation costs are coming down. Even in small-town America where I live (~5000 people, largest municipality in the county) the local McDonalds already has an automate soda machine for the drive-thru. I have no doubt other tasks at McDonalds will be automated soon.
I agree. It will happen within 10 years - maybe 5.
Technology is changing FAST.
As I said, even "driving" jobs will be affected. Some states (Nevada for one) are ALREADY developing laws and regulations for dealing with "driverless vehicles".

Nevada Passes Law Authorizing Driverless Cars - Forbes

Ken
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