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Sorry ... but I'm not buying that "working vacation / White House South" BS one bit!
Just because Bush held a few meetings and met around 15 foreign diplomats, doesn't mean he was "working" during the entire 490 days he spent in Crawford.
When the President spends his time inside the White House, he is surrounded by his staff.
He has an Oval Office where high level meetings take place.
The White House is much more than a "home" to the President. It is also the "Office of the President".
When at The White House, the news media constantly reports on the activities of the President.
And when the President wants to get away from the stress of the White House ... he normally takes Marine One (helicopter) to the nearby rest spot Camp David. He does not need to fly on Air Force One 1500 miles, and waste taxpayer money.
Bush purchased and ultimately created a playland for himself, with an 11 acre fishing lake, a swimming pool, and enough land to fit 10 Disneylands on the property.
While at Crawford, Bush was not being watched by anyone. No media. No government officials. Nobody.
So who really knows how he was spending his time?
As I previously stated ... Bush could easily have held a meeting for an hour in the morning, and then called it a day, and then go fishing on his lake the rest of the day.
Reagan did much the same, doing his job but from another location.
I'm sure Obama is only doing what he absolutely has to from Martha's Vineyard.
Won't even tell us where he was and what he was doing when the Seals were in Pakistan, which is certainly not an "everyday" occurrence.
Are you trying to tell me that TARP saved the economy and the trillions (yes $3.2T spent in the stimulus bill per the CBO over a 10 year period) was a waste of money?
The stimulus bill DIDNT GET SPENT UNTIL MUCH MUCH LATER in 2009, 2010 etc.. it was a 10 year spending bill.
How the hell does spending in 2010, affect 2009 GDP?
What I'm trying to tell you is that you still haven't said what bill you are talking about. Your claim was that the economy stabilized before Obama signed any bill. If you were talking about TARP you would be wrong because Obama didn't sign it and the economy wasn't stabilized. Now, you are trying to move the goal post and talk about spending.
Q1-2009 = -6.4%
Q2-2009 = -0.7%
Q3-2009 = +2.2%
Q4-2009 = +5.9%
All of 2009 = -2.4%
All of 2008 = +0.4%
What I'm trying to tell you is that you still haven't said what bill you are talking about.
What part of ANY MONEY by Obama is complicated for you to comprehend..
and your list of GDP growth actually validates my statement to be true since once again, stimulus spending didnt start until LATE 2009/2010.. Thanks...
What part of ANY MONEY by Obama is complicated for you to comprehend..
and your list of GDP growth actually validates my statement to be true since once again, stimulus spending didnt start until LATE 2009/2010.. Thanks...
In other words, you were wrong and simply stuck you foot in your mouth.
$104.4B
$400 tax credit for working individuals; $800 for working married couples
Tax Incentives for Businesses
$32.6B
The Work Opportunity Tax Credit added unemployed veterans and 16-to-24 year olds to the list of new hires that businesses could claim. The Net Operating Loss Carryback allows small businesses to offset losses by receiving refunds on taxes paid up to five years ago.
Energy Incentives
$10.9B
Tax credits for energy efficient improvements to residences. Tax credits for alternative energy equipment. Electric Vehicles Tax Credit
Manufacturing & Economic Recovery, Infrastructure Refinancing, Other
$7.3B
Tax-exempt bonds to expand industrial development. Bonds for investment in Infrastructure, job training, and education in high unemployment areas. Increased available New Market credits
COBRA
$3.7B
Assistance with Continuation of Health Coverage
In other words, you were wrong and simply stuck you foot in your mouth.
That's about the size of it. pghquest is well known to defend the indefensible argument and argue against what is well proven. He has long believed the long discredited notion that lowering taxes causes more government revenue, contrary to all evidence. He also believes that the stimulus bill didn't do anything positive, also contrary to evidence, the CBo and private economists.
You really don't have to take what he writes as if he is an objective party.
$104.4B
$400 tax credit for working individuals; $800 for working married couples
Tax Incentives for Businesses
$32.6B
The Work Opportunity Tax Credit added unemployed veterans and 16-to-24 year olds to the list of new hires that businesses could claim. The Net Operating Loss Carryback allows small businesses to offset losses by receiving refunds on taxes paid up to five years ago.
Energy Incentives
$10.9B
Tax credits for energy efficient improvements to residences. Tax credits for alternative energy equipment. Electric Vehicles Tax Credit
Manufacturing & Economic Recovery, Infrastructure Refinancing, Other
$7.3B
Tax-exempt bonds to expand industrial development. Bonds for investment in Infrastructure, job training, and education in high unemployment areas. Increased available New Market credits
COBRA
$3.7B
Assistance with Continuation of Health Coverage
The very first item on your list, first time home buyer, earned income credits etc, was in existance far before Obama become president.. It was signed into law by Bush.. Once again, we're dicussing OBAMA spending..
The make work pay, was spread out OVER A YEAR, and not at all spent by the date you indicated.
Do you think before you post this crap, especially considering your own link says that only $24B was spent. If $24B turned the economy around, then why do we need to be spending over $3T? Shouldnt the economy be exploading?
That's about the size of it. pghquest is well known to defend the indefensible argument and argue against what is well proven. He has long believed the long discredited notion that lowering taxes causes more government revenue, contrary to all evidence. He also believes that the stimulus bill didn't do anything positive, also contrary to evidence, the CBo and private economists.
You really don't have to take what he writes as if he is an objective party.
The stimulus bill had to FIRST take money out of the economy before it could be put back into it.
Only someone younger than 10 wouldnt understand that money doesnt come from no where..
The stimulus bill had to FIRST take money out of the economy before it could be put back into it.
Only someone younger than 10 wouldnt understand that money doesnt come from no where..
The more you write the more you prove to the entire community what you do not know or understand about economics generally and monetary policy in particular.
The stimulus was not money derived from new taxes that would tend to take money from the hands of Americans and redirect it to the government. It was borrowed from the credit markets in the form of government bonds sold to investors. In normal times, such as in times of full employment, government borrowing competes with businesses and consumers for funds. However, when the economy was in free-fall in 2008/2009, businesses were not expanding and consumers were cutting back spending, not expanding it. Thus, there was no negative effects of that stimulus borrowing. It did not cut the supply of loanable funds nor did it drive rates upward.
The very first item on your list, first time home buyer, earned income credits etc, was in existance far before Obama become president.. It was signed into law by Bush.. Once again, we're dicussing OBAMA spending..
The make work pay, was spread out OVER A YEAR, and not at all spent by the date you indicated.
Do you think before you post this crap, especially considering your own link says that only $24B was spent. If $24B turned the economy around, then why do we need to be spending over $3T? Shouldnt the economy be exploading?
I never made any claim about the effect of the ARR act of 2009, you did, and your claim was that the economy stopped collapsing before it was signed. You then moved the goalpost to say that none of the money was spent until late 2009/early 2010 when spending was not related to your original claim. I only pointed out that spending did in fact start before late09/10 and that you were wrong again.
My only question was what bill were you talking about and you still haven't answered that. (Hint: Obama did sign a different bill after the economy stabilized)
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest
Bull crap. The economy stopped collapsing before Obama passed a dam bill into law.
You're also wrong about the home buyer credit. While it is true that Bush signed the credit into law, the ARRA of 2009 increased and expanded the first time homebuyer credit.
The more you write the more you prove to the entire community what you do not know or understand about economics generally and monetary policy in particular.
The stimulus was not money derived from new taxes that would tend to take money from the hands of Americans and redirect it to the government. It was borrowed from the credit markets in the form of government bonds sold to investors. In normal times, such as in times of full employment, government borrowing competes with businesses and consumers for funds. However, when the economy was in free-fall in 2008/2009, businesses were not expanding and consumers were cutting back spending, not expanding it. Thus, there was no negative effects of that stimulus borrowing. It did not cut the supply of loanable funds nor did it drive rates upward.
Oh yes, when is your 10th birthday?
money borrowed from the credit market still removes money from the economy
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