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Old 01-21-2008, 02:13 PM
 
Location: Retirementland
1,234 posts, read 2,462,849 times
Reputation: 829

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasReb View Post
No mothers involved? How is there no mother involved if there is an egg donor???? And how in the world did the children ENTER this world if not by a natural living mother?



What or where, exactly, is that "evidence"?

I have no reason to believe otherwise than that you are a loving parent, and want the best for your children. However, I still stand by my statement/position that kids need a mother and father, a momma and daddy. A natural balance and what nature intends. And works best.
Works best, you say?

In that same way, you're saying that an abusive heterosexual couple who have children would be better parents than a loving homosexual couple, because it's "what nature intends"?

 
Old 01-21-2008, 02:38 PM
 
10,167 posts, read 17,075,316 times
Reputation: 5739
Quote:
Originally Posted by denverian View Post
They are brought into the world via a surrogate mother, who isn't the egg donor and has no legal right to the children once born. Neither does the egg donor. A married couple down the street did the exact same thing since the wife had no eggs/couldn't carry a baby.
Did you say a mother? Heretofore you suggested such a thing never existed. And? Perhaps to your way of thinking, she does't. The "egg donor" as you put it? How soooo very sad.


Quote:
Here's evidence:

American Civil Liberties Union : Overview of Lesbian and Gay Parenting, Adoption and Foster Care

APA Policy Statement on Sexual Orientation, Parents, & Children

The Future of Children - Sub-Sections (http://www.futureofchildren.org/information2827/information_show.htm?doc_id=290849 - broken link)
This is not evidence. What you post are skewed stats from extremely biased sources to advance a position. Hell, to a color blind person, green is red.

Quote:
But the real evidence I see is actual gay parents raising children. I see it every day, and the kids are fine. Of course you'll find plenty of bs statistics from Focus on the Family and other religious fringe groups like that, but they have no credibility for most people. I mean, their "statistics" on the average gay man are laughable.
Just as, at one time, the "evidence" supposedly "proved" that children from single divorced (and by the way, I am a divorced, twice, parent) families are just as well adjusted those who were raised in marriages between men and women that lasted. It didn't turn out that way...and the "evidence" is in, pure and clear and simple.

You can fool yourself all you want to, but the proof is in the puddin' and everyone really knows it, anyway. The reason AIDS is mostly a phenomenon of homosexual men is for the simple reason the lifestyle is the one most likely to spread it. And so far as kids go? To think, to even for one moment believe that children do not need a present father and mother to balance and love them, is nothing short of ridiculous.

Quote:
I would think you'd be more concerned with the high divorce rates, out of wedlock births, and epidemic of poor parenting in this country than gay couples raising kids. I mean, it's heterosexuals doing most of the damage to kids.
It is? Heterosexuals doing most of the damage to the kids? Pray tell back up that statement?

Concern about all the things you mention? Of COURSE, I am concerned about them. But does that mean I can't be concerned about other things too?

This is just..silly. And no other way to put it. Akin to saying I have no right to believe abortion is wrong if I don't adopt a child.
 
Old 01-21-2008, 02:41 PM
 
10,167 posts, read 17,075,316 times
Reputation: 5739
Quote:
Originally Posted by emi__ View Post
Works best, you say?

In that same way, you're saying that an abusive heterosexual couple who have children would be better parents than a loving homosexual couple, because it's "what nature intends"?
Where did I say this? I mean, point out to me where I said anything remotely like this.

When you can? We will talk.
 
Old 01-21-2008, 03:04 PM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,174 posts, read 23,215,035 times
Reputation: 10428
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasReb View Post
Did you say a mother? Heretofore you suggested such a thing never existed. And? Perhaps to your way of thinking, she does't. The "egg donor" as you put it? How soooo very sad.




This is not evidence. What you post are skewed stats from extremely biased sources to advance a position. Hell, to a color blind person, green is red.



Just as, at one time, the "evidence" supposedly "proved" that children from single divorced (and by the way, I am a divorced, twice, parent) families are just as well adjusted those who were raised in marriages between men and women that lasted. It didn't turn out that way...and the "evidence" is in, pure and clear and simple.

You can fool yourself all you want to, but the proof is in the puddin' and everyone really knows it, anyway. The reason AIDS is mostly a phenomenon of homosexual men is for the simple reason the lifestyle is the one most likely to spread it. And so far as kids go? To think, to even for one moment believe that children do not need a present father and mother to balance and love them, is nothing short of ridiculous.



It is? Heterosexuals doing most of the damage to the kids? Pray tell back up that statement?

Concern about all the things you mention? Of COURSE, I am concerned about them. But does that mean I can't be concerned about other things too?

This is just..silly. And no other way to put it. Akin to saying I have no right to believe abortion is wrong if I don't adopt a child.
No, I don't view the egg donor as the mother. If a woman adopts a child, she's considered the mother. The egg donor had no intention of raising these children.

I'm not fooling myself on made up stats against gay men. Focus claims gay men have hundreds of sex partners per year, are predatory, blah blah blah. I've been in a relationship and monogamous for over a decade, and when single, never into multiple sex partners, etc. I don't have HIV and never put myself in a position to get it. People who believe their stats are brainwashed and using them to push an agenda.

I'm not fooling myself. And I have yet to receive a negative reponse from anyone about being a parent, other than my parents. They're brainwashed evangelicals and I could care less what they think since I consider them to be lead astray and a lost cause. I'm focused on raising my own family.

And I think any reasonable person would agree that it's heterosexuals who by far mess up kids more than gay couples. Gay parents are a very small minority of parents, and we're not producing "accident" kids. Anyone (like us) who can spend a hundred grand to procuce two children has put a lot of thought and consideration into it.

I'm a parent, will do a great job of it, and it's perfectly legal. Although I'm sure if the Focus group had its way, it would be illegal.
 
Old 01-21-2008, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Earth
24,639 posts, read 24,759,886 times
Reputation: 11318
Not that it matters, but the longest lasting monogamous relationships in my lie are those shared by my gay friends. 25-30 years together! Amazing. I know very few heteros with that type of longevity.
 
Old 01-21-2008, 03:09 PM
 
4,046 posts, read 5,324,048 times
Reputation: 1523
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasReb View Post
The reason AIDS is mostly a phenomenon of homosexual men is for the simple reason the lifestyle is the one most likely to spread it.
Someone posted a study a little earlier in this thread that refuted that claim. It purported that women (regardless of orientation) are more at risk for being infected with HIV. I read a study that claimed the same in a women's magazine about three years ago. I'm not saying it's gospel necessarily, but at the very least, something to consider, right?

Quote:
And so far as kids go? To think, to even for one moment believe that children do not need a present father and mother to balance and love them, is nothing short of ridiculous.
I really don't see why it's ridiculous. At one time I'm sure it was really unusual. I don't see how it is now. Nevertheless, I used to agree with you (though I never shared that opinion for fear of offending people) and then I met some gay couples who had children and it really changed my outlook. I really could see how the children were growing up in an environment that was comparable to that of heterosexual couples, save for a lack of societal and legal support (those will change with time).
 
Old 01-21-2008, 03:13 PM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,174 posts, read 23,215,035 times
Reputation: 10428
Quote:
Originally Posted by buildings_and_bridges View Post
Someone posted a study a little earlier in this thread that refuted that claim. It purported that women (regardless of orientation) are more at risk for being infected with HIV. I read a study that claimed the same in a women's magazine about three years ago. I'm not saying it's gospel necessarily, but at the very least, something to consider, right?

I really don't see why it's ridiculous. At one time I'm sure it was really unusual. I don't see how it is now. Nevertheless, I used to agree with you (though I never shared that opinion for fear of offending people) and then I met some gay couples who had children and it really changed my outlook. I really could see how the children were growing up in an environment that was comparable to that of heterosexual couples, save for a lack of societal and legal support (those will change with time).
What I love about where I live is that there are a few gay parents in the neighborhood, but all the straight families treat them as equals. I wouldn't raise kids where I thought they would be harassed and looked down upon. It's such a loving environment, when I hear people online so against gay people and parenting, I feel like they're on another planet.
 
Old 01-21-2008, 03:20 PM
 
Location: NW PA
1,093 posts, read 422,942 times
Reputation: 198
I hesitate to post but need to say, a loving family is better than some of the abusive families I have seen. Hetero families are doing major damage to kids, many of these young parents have no idea how to parent. Seems too many 20 somethings are too focused on ME. Given enough gay parents, in time, they will also screw up kids, it seems what we as humans are destined to do...

All you gay basher, you never know when your child or sibling may come out of the closet. Tell me you will stop loving them, no, you will adjust.

Last edited by Deborah53; 01-21-2008 at 03:27 PM.. Reason: spelling error
 
Old 01-21-2008, 03:23 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
620 posts, read 1,613,762 times
Reputation: 414
Quote:
Originally Posted by denverian View Post
What I love about where I live is that there are a few gay parents in the neighborhood, but all the straight families treat them as equals. I wouldn't raise kids where I thought they would be harassed and looked down upon. It's such a loving environment, when I hear people online so against gay people and parenting, I feel like they're on another planet.
I'm so happy that you found such an amazing environment for you and your family!
 
Old 01-21-2008, 03:23 PM
 
Location: Boise
4,425 posts, read 5,264,051 times
Reputation: 1695
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deborah53 View Post
I hesitate to post but need to say, a loving family is better than some of the abusive families I have seen. Hetero families are doing major damage to kids, many of these young parents have know idea how to parent. Seems too many 20 somethings are too focused on ME. Given enough gay parents, in time, they will also screw up kids, it seems what we as humans are destined to do...

All you gay basher, you never know when your child or sibling may come out of the closet. Tell me you will stop loving them, no you will adjust.
exactly.... people are people.. and the real issue is what people have between their legs... that makes people's minds race about whatever their little minds want to conjur up.. but if two parents gay or straight have the ability to raise a child in a loving manner.. then they should be the same..
and as for the gay issue.. it really isn't properly understood by many until they have a close family member who is... and for many that is the rude awakening it takes...
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