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After reading through a lot of post, it’s clear to me that real issues in America are simply entertainment for most. These forums just seem to be a place for people, with nothing better to do maybe, to socialize and be heard and to represent a “school of thought”. Few, if any, seek to be educated or seek quest for higher or greater understanding, to the degree that they will thank someone for expanding their understanding.
There is the BIG PICTURE, but within the big picture there are SMALLER PICTURES or realities, that represent our individual experiences. Often times the smaller picture may be the antithesis of the larger picyure. The smaller picture does not necessarily reflect the bigger picture. If one looks at the jungle from 30,000 feet above in an airplane, it may look all lush and green. However, when on the ground there are many areas not green and lush.
I have witness these debates, and this debate, morph from an argument of the big picture, to conversations about personal experiences, which may or may not be reflective of the big picture. Everyone has personal stories and experiences but no one experiences enough to be reflective of the big picture because there is not proof that a person’s experiences represents the normative experience on matters such as what is being discussed.
These and other debates or conversation are frustrating because few appear to be honest and open. Instead of people saying what they really feel or arguing from the root premise of their position, people seem to talk in riddles out of fear of being labeled one of the many terms that are used to ostracize and discredit people. People are being so “careful” in what they say….that no one really knows what they are saying…..maybe not even the person who is saying it. I have a hard time trying to figure out what a person root position is due to them being so superficial in what they say as a result of trying not to be seen “the wrong way”. If one cannot say what they really feel, with civility, what is the point? One is what they are….but many try to hide it….and maybe people fear who they really are, will come through if they speak from their heart, and they may not like the truth about who they really are.
Has anyone ever left one of these debates with a different opinion than what they came in with? if not....what is the point to all this?
The HS gap between black males and black females is the highest of any demographic, but it is improving; back in 2003 the graduation rate was 48% vs 52% today. Part of the education gap is something that is seen in every demographic group in the USA. Even Asian females graduate at higher levels than Asian males.
Just because the arm hurts does not mean that the problem is rooted in the arm....it may be the heart. Often times we have to look not where the pain and dysfunction is.....but somwhere else as the pain and dysfunction may be a symptom of a larger problem somewhere else.
There is something you have to understand. I've gotten the "oh, you're articulate for a Black guy" comments. I've had the "you act White" comments. And to me, it assumes that because I'm Black, I can't be "articulate". To me, the way I talk is normal. It is normal to me to to use Ebonics. The assumptions might be stupid, but I don't like it when some people make assumptions about me.
Who does? People make assumptions about me because I have blonde hair. I can't help people's assumptions except to show them that I don't fit them. What else can I do?
I've gotten a few of these comments too even from some of my family members (particularly those on my Dad's side). I have one aunt who is just tickled pink every time I speak because I typically don't use ebonics. I'm no prude, I'm just rather soft spoken so using too much slang just comes across as fake if I do it. I also don't wear my pants where my boxers start and I don't blast rap music. The "you act white" or "you are the whitest black guy I every met", the "oreo" comments do kind of come across as offensive b/c the way I interpret that is that you think that I think I'm too good for my own race, though that could not be further from the truth. I've even had family members say "your gonna marry a white girl" as if it's some big deal. Most black women don't find me black enough and it kind of saddens me. I'm very down to earth, I try to get along w/ most ppl, however don't tell me that I "act white" unless I really am "acting white" and that would be by bashing my own race. I do anything but that.
See, that's offensive to me. You assume that all white people bash black people. And why do some black people think you're acting white if you speak properly? I see people like James Earl Jones, Bill Cosby, Phylicia Rashad, and Debbie Allen speaking very proper English, and no one thinks they're acting white. Is it just the younger generation?
See, that's offensive to me. You assume that all white people bash black people. And why do some black people think you're acting white if you speak properly? I see people like James Earl Jones, Bill Cosby, Phylicia Rashad, and Debbie Allen speaking very proper English, and no one thinks they're acting white. Is it just the younger generation?
I don't think it's due to speaking gramatically-correct English, but maybe because the tone and inflection of his voice doesn't "sound Black" for lack of a better term. That's been my experience anyway.
After reading through a lot of post, it’s clear to me that real issues in America are simply entertainment for most. These forums just seem to be a place for people, with nothing better to do maybe, to socialize and be heard and to represent a “school of thought”. Few, if any, seek to be educated or seek quest for higher or greater understanding, to the degree that they will thank someone for expanding their understanding.
There is the BIG PICTURE, but within the big picture there are SMALLER PICTURES or realities, that represent our individual experiences. Often times the smaller picture may be the antithesis of the larger picyure. The smaller picture does not necessarily reflect the bigger picture. If one looks at the jungle from 30,000 feet above in an airplane, it may look all lush and green. However, when on the ground there are many areas not green and lush.
I have witness these debates, and this debate, morph from an argument of the big picture, to conversations about personal experiences, which may or may not be reflective of the big picture. Everyone has personal stories and experiences but no one experiences enough to be reflective of the big picture because there is not proof that a person’s experiences represents the normative experience on matters such as what is being discussed.
These and other debates or conversation are frustrating because few appear to be honest and open. Instead of people saying what they really feel or arguing from the root premise of their position, people seem to talk in riddles out of fear of being labeled one of the many terms that are used to ostracize and discredit people. People are being so “careful” in what they say….that no one really knows what they are saying…..maybe not even the person who is saying it. I have a hard time trying to figure out what a person root position is due to them being so superficial in what they say as a result of trying not to be seen “the wrong way”. If one cannot say what they really feel, with civility, what is the point? One is what they are….but many try to hide it….and maybe people fear who they really are, will come through if they speak from their heart, and they may not like the truth about who they really are.
Has anyone ever left one of these debates with a different opinion than what they came in with? if not....what is the point to all this?
.
Not every conversation has to change your opinion, but I like seeing different perspectives here because I do feel people are more honest because of the anonymity. I guess I was the one relating personal experiences that don't show the forest through the trees, but what else have I got? I haven't lived in the ghetto, and I don't know any black people living in the ghetto. I know plenty of middle class black people though. I don't know what their experiences are with racism, police harassment, discrimination at school or work, etc. If they had them, they aren't relating them to me. So I come here to get different perspectives from people living across the country. I think I've even had my opinion changed a few times.
After reading through a lot of post, it’s clear to me that real issues in America are simply entertainment for most. These forums just seem to be a place for people, with nothing better to do maybe, to socialize and be heard and to represent a “school of thought”. Few, if any, seek to be educated or seek quest for higher or greater understanding, to the degree that they will thank someone for expanding their understanding.
There is the BIG PICTURE, but within the big picture there are SMALLER PICTURES or realities, that represent our individual experiences. Often times the smaller picture may be the antithesis of the larger picyure. The smaller picture does not necessarily reflect the bigger picture. If one looks at the jungle from 30,000 feet above in an airplane, it may look all lush and green. However, when on the ground there are many areas not green and lush.
I have witness these debates, and this debate, morph from an argument of the big picture, to conversations about personal experiences, which may or may not be reflective of the big picture. Everyone has personal stories and experiences but no one experiences enough to be reflective of the big picture because there is not proof that a person’s experiences represents the normative experience on matters such as what is being discussed.
These and other debates or conversation are frustrating because few appear to be honest and open. Instead of people saying what they really feel or arguing from the root premise of their position, people seem to talk in riddles out of fear of being labeled one of the many terms that are used to ostracize and discredit people. People are being so “careful” in what they say….that no one really knows what they are saying…..maybe not even the person who is saying it. I have a hard time trying to figure out what a person root position is due to them being so superficial in what they say as a result of trying not to be seen “the wrong way”. If one cannot say what they really feel, with civility, what is the point? One is what they are….but many try to hide it….and maybe people fear who they really are, will come through if they speak from their heart, and they may not like the truth about who they really are.
Has anyone ever left one of these debates with a different opinion than what they came in with? if not....what is the point to all this?
Thank you. I have left some debates, especially religious debates with a different opinion. As far as the political type debates, no I have left with a different opinion. But I have left enlightened by people's opinions or people checking me for generalizing or being caught up in the propaganda that's going on in regard to racism and the way blacks are supposedly being treated by the media and society in general.
You make some very valid points. I personally started this thread just to see what were people's opinions about this quote. It's true that most of us can only speak from personal experiences, and if you aren't black, then it's even harder to understand the frustration and sometimes anger blacks have in regard to race in America when the media and politicians appear to have their own agendas regarding it. As a black man, I have never experienced overt racism by anyone. I have dealt with bias and having to prove myself by working 110% better to be respected.
I've gotten a few of these comments too even from some of my family members (particularly those on my Dad's side). I have one aunt who is just tickled pink every time I speak because I typically don't use ebonics. I'm no prude, I'm just rather soft spoken so using too much slang just comes across as fake if I do it. I also don't wear my pants where my boxers start and I don't blast rap music. The "you act white" or "you are the whitest black guy I every met", the "oreo" comments do kind of come across as offensive b/c the way I interpret that is that you think that I think I'm too good for my own race, though that could not be further from the truth. I've even had family members say "your gonna marry a white girl" as if it's some big deal. Most black women don't find me black enough and it kind of saddens me. I'm very down to earth, I try to get along w/ most ppl, however don't tell me that I "act white" unless I really am "acting white" and that would be by bashing my own race. I do anything but that.
My question has always been if your skin color is black, and you speak standard English or ebonics, aren't you still black? I never understood how some blacks feel that because a black person doesn't speak ebonics, that person is some how not black enough or has sold out. Shouldn't they be proud of the fact that you can speak king's English with the same command as any educated person. Not all white people speak standard English. Just go to certain parts of the south, and when you hear black and white people having the same southern drawl and using phrases like I am about to make groceries, that sounds like they are speaking the same language. It's sad that when a black man speaks standard English, you have some black males wanting to think that he's gay too. That's another thread to start in regard to how the black community defines masculinity. But I don't want to digress too much off what I originally started.
"then we can look at the real problem facing the black community--poor schools, lack of jobs, and drug epidemic thats growing by leaps and bounds."
"poor schools"? Wash, DC spends more per student then most every other city.
Both of my parents went to D.C schools and they were just fine. what happened to them?
Who has been running them for the past 10, 15, 20 years?
"lack of jobs". How can you expect someone to get a decent job when they haven't even finished high school?
"What's so annoying is the ASSumption that the 72% of black mothers having babies out of wedlock are all by black fathers. "
Please the "correct" data, or are YOU making an ASSumption?
Since I am a school teacher, most of the money being spent on public schools after you get through all of the government restrictions as to how the money can be spent on schools, one would go why should schools even accept the money. Case in point. In my school district the federal government offers after school intervention money for EL or English Learner students. That money can't be used for any other student who happens to struggling in school as well. In other words if English isn't your second language, those students can't participate in that after school program to help them get over the hump. As silly as that is, it's makes sense to the government because that money is solely allocated for students learning English as a second language. Now if I have students who only speak English and are black, then they lose out and have to wait to participate in another type of after school program that may or may not be funded for smaller after school intervention. Thus, how do I provide after school intervention for my black students if the government's federal funding mandate says that I can only do it for the EL students who they have allocated money for?
In regard to the 72% out of wedlock births among black women, what I was trying to say is how it gets me when people use statistics about out of wedlock births among black mothers seem to be the biggest problem in the black community as if to say that none of those fathers aren't helping raise their children. All of a sudden that seems to be one of the main talking points I am hearing in debates regarding the black community.
Again just because the mother isn't married to her baby daddy that doesn't mean that she's not living with her baby daddy or even better he wont be around to at least help her raise their child in what ever capacity that he can help. To me people use this kind of data to make assumptions about black people without looking at the root cause of those statistics and whether or not those statistics are valid for the entire group being counted. That was what I was trying to make.
As far as jobs, since you seem to ASSume it's the people's fault for dropping out of high school and not being able to get a decent job, I wasn't talking about high school dropouts. I am talking mainly about the people who have a high school diploma, have gone to one of those career colleges/trade schools, or a major university and have to still settle for a minimum wage job or worse throw in the towel and settle for government assistance in the form of welfare, general relief (GR), and unemployment checks.
Last edited by antredd; 08-18-2013 at 09:31 PM..
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