The war on "Christmas" (vote, parade, thoughts, merry christmas)

[Kali's Grandma]

Originally Posted by yayoi

Well that's how many people feel about religions in general. That they are created by nutcases.

By the way...Kwanza has nothing to do with religion.

Life is way to short to worry about silly things like seeing a Christmas tree or a Menorrah is a public place.

Neither one bothers me.

[gnab gib]

So, here's my problem with "Happy Holidays."

First, almost everyone celebrates Christmas. The last poll numbers I saw put it above 95% in the U.S. Christians celebrate it, but others do, too. I'm an agnostic. I celebrate it. I've even known Jewish people who observe the day in some fashion. (Remember, Hanukkah is NOT a major Jewish holiday. It's not the Jewish equivalent of Christmas.)

And second, retailers seem to want it both ways. They cram their ads full of Christmas songs, Santas, wreaths, candy canes, sleigh bells, and families gathered around Christmas trees ... and then the voiceover says, "This holiday, buy your gifts from us!" Funny, I never knew Christmas trees and Santa Claus were associated with some day called "Holiday." If you're not going to use the word, don't use the imagery associated with the day!

[Sooner_Nation_60]

Originally Posted by CarolinaBredChicagoan

.... right. So what's wrong with having a menorah AND a christmas tree at the airport?

I don't know why. You might contact a representative at the Seattle airport and see if they can tell you why. But apparently the 37,200 Jews that live in and around the Seattle area that ontheroad mentions didn't make too big a deal out of it; just one rabid rabbi....

[Sooner_Nation_60]

Originally Posted by ontheroad

It might have to do with perspective. The Seattle Metro area (2000 census) had 37,200 Jews; all of Oklahoma in the same period reported 5,056.

What the Jewish census of Oklahoma is has zip, zilch, zero to do with my perspective of the issue. Funny and presumptive that you would even think that of someone you don't know anything about. Making assumptions based on a state's demographics is, well....just downright ignorant. But I'll give you the correct up-to-date numbers from 2007. State of Oklahoma 0.1% of it's population is Jewish. State of Washington 0.7% of it's population is Jewish.....

My perspective remains the same regardless of the state I currently live in or have resided in, including the very liberal Oregon. It's Christmas, a nationally recognized Christan holiday. Some folks just need to learn to live with it.

[CarolinaBredChicagoan]

Originally Posted by Sooner_Nation_60

I don't know why. You might contact a representative at the Seattle airport and see if they can tell you why. But apparently the 37,200 Jews that live in and around the Seattle area that ontheroad mentions didn't make too big a deal out of it; just one rabid rabbi....

Well, you mentioned that menorahs have nothing to do with Christmas. I get that. No one said they did. It's an airport. Not a church. Is the guy wrong for saying "Hey. You've got a Christmas display. How about a menorah as well?"

If the airport had a big menorah in it and nothing for Christmas, might you not ask the converse question? Or, if not you, perhaps your pastor or the leader of a local christian organization?

[Sooner_Nation_60]

Originally Posted by CarolinaBredChicagoan

Well, you mentioned that menorahs have nothing to do with Christmas. I get that. No one said they did. It's an airport. Not a church. Is the guy wrong for saying "Hey. You've got a Christmas display. How about a menorah as well?"

If the airport had a big menorah in it and nothing for Christmas, might you not ask the converse question? Or, if not you, perhaps your pastor or the leader of a local christian organization?

You are missing MY point. The airport had a tree in celebration of CHRISTMAS. This rabbi comes along and got offended. Why? Why was he offended that a TREE was in an airport during the CHRISTMAS holiday? It's a Christian holiday ~ Christmas. EXPECT CHRISTMAS THINGS! If it were a JEWISH holiday I would totally EXPECT JEWISH THINGS!

[CarolinaBredChicagoan]

Originally Posted by Sooner_Nation_60

You are missing MY point. The airport had a tree in celebration of CHRISTMAS. This rabbi comes along and got offended. Why? Why was he offended that a TREE was in an airport during the CHRISTMAS holiday? It's a Christian holiday ~ Christmas. EXPECT CHRISTMAS THINGS! If it were a JEWISH holiday I would totally EXPECT JEWISH THINGS!

I see your point. I have seen it from the beginning. Fact is, the date of Christmas is very close to the dates of Hanukkah. If you had walked into the airport and had seen a menorah in celebration of Hanukkah- a Jewish Holiday (It's the Hanukkah season! Expect Hanukkah things!)- would you be surprised if someone asked if they might put up a display celebrating Christmas?

[Sooner_Nation_60]

Originally Posted by CarolinaBredChicagoan

I see your point. I have seen it from the beginning. Fact is, the date of Christmas is very close to the dates of Hanukkah. If you had walked into the airport and had seen a menorah in celebration of Hanukkah- a Jewish Holiday (It's the Hanukkah season! Expect Hanukkah things!)- would you be surprised if someone asked if they might put up a display celebrating Christmas?

I would be surprised, yes. I can't imagine wanting to impose on someone's holiday?? I have never done it and would never do it. I understand that some people do and I don't condone it. For the life of me, I will never understand why some are so threatened by Christmas. Those that don't celebrate it try to ruin it for those that do.....shameless!

[CarolinaBredChicagoan]

Originally Posted by Sooner_Nation_60

I would be surprised, yes. I can't imagine wanting to impose on someone's holiday?? I have never done it and would never do it. I understand that some people do and I don't condone it. For the life of me, I will never understand why some are so threatened by Christmas. Those that don't celebrate it try to ruin it for those that do.....shameless!

But... it's a scheduling issue. The seasons overlap. How is it imposition for both holidays to get some mention in a public place dedicated to neither religion?

[Yeledaf]

Originally Posted by CarolinaBredChicagoan

But... it's a scheduling issue. The seasons overlap. How is it imposition for both holidays to get some mention in a public place dedicated to neither religion?

Why must a public place be devoted to neither religion? Furhter, what IS this public place dedicated to? If it's to provide a cheerful environment for the public, why SHOULDN'T there be: trees at Christmas, pumpkins at Halloween, turkeys at Thanksgiving, hearts at Valentine's day, flags on the 4th of July, etc.?

The point I am trying to make is that these are ALL secular symbols. A tree has nothing to do with Christianity: a Menorah has a LOT to do with Judaism (dredls, however, would be okay! )...

For all intents and purposes, Christmas is a secular holiday: one need only read the posts in this thread from non-Christians who find the holiday inoffensive for this very reason.