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I said "point it out in the body of the opinion", not in the summary paragraph.
The closing paragraph reiterates EXACTLY the question asked and answered of/by SCOTUS. THAT'S what matters.
The question asked and answered (it's a legal concept regarding precedents set by court decisions), which Gray specifically and carefully reiterated and on which the Court ruled, is what sets precedent.
Gray helps everyone out by being very explicit in the ruling:
"The evident intention, and the necessary effect, of the submission of this case to the decision of the court upon the facts agreed by the parties were to present for determination the single question stated at the beginning of this opinion, namely,whether a child born in the United States, of parent of Chinese descent, who, at the time of his birth, are subjects of the Emperor of China, but have a permanent domicil and residence in the United States, and are there carrying on business, and are not employed in any diplomatic or official capacity under the Emperor of China, becomes at the time of his birth a citizen of the United States."
"The necessary effect of the submission of this case to the decision of the court upon the facts agreed by the parties, namely..."
Which then goes on to include as anamed agreed upon fact: parents who had an established permanent domicile in the U.S. at the time of WKA's birth in the U.S.
Consider this: Wong Kim Ark was born in San Francisco around 1871 and you have already pointed out that his parents, Chinese nationals, had established a permanent domicile at the time of his birth. Just how did they establish a permanent domicile without an LPR card, which would not be available for another 70+ years?
If you had bothered to read the case, you would have learned that the fact that Wong Kim Ark's parents had an established permanent domicile in the U.S. at the time of WKA's birth was a FACT AGREED UPON by all parties in the caseAND a fact on which the SCOTUS ruling was based.
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If Wong Kim Ark's parent's didn't need an LPR card back in 1871 to establish a permanent domicile, why are you insisting that it is now required for such status?
Because the LPR Card exists now for the specific purpose of IDENTIFYING those who have permanent domicile status in the U.S. Duh.
The system does have a way to validate whether you registered (President Obama's registration has even come up under debate on this forum). There, I went to sss.gov (again) and just verified I had registered. It is verified when a male Legal Permanent Resident attempts to naturalize if they were determined to be present (legally or illegally) during that age span.
So if they never attempt to naturalize (we do after all have 11 million illegal aliens in the U.S.), no one would know they never registered for Selective Service.
in what fantasy land does that statement dismiss my entire argument?
Fantasy land? Its in black and white in WKA, the very case you have been exclaiming proves everything about BRC.
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Again, the law is quite clear, but you seem to have trouble in understanding it.
Trouble understanding it? Sorry, your attempts at being the internet bully are laughable, along with your claims, but to each his own.
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Fletes-Mora v. Rogers, 160 F. Supp. 215 (D. Cal. 1958)
A case involving an actual US citizen....FAIL. I bet you dont even understand that case, its obvious you dont understand it as you are attempting to use it to justify your inept claims. Boldened to show you are simply wrong.
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"By allegiance is meant the obligation of fidelity and obedience which the individual owes to the government under which he lives, or to his sovereign in return for the protection he receives. It may be an absolute and permanent obligation, or it may be a qualified and temporary one. The citizen or subject owes an absolute and permanent allegiance to his government or sovereign, or at least until, by some open and distinct act, he renounces it and becomes a citizen or subject of another government or another sovereign.The alien, whilst domiciled in the country, owes a local and temporary allegiance, which continues during the period of his residence.
"`* * * Independently of a residence with intention to continue such residence; independently of any domiciliation; independently of the taking of any oath of allegiance or of renouncing any former allegiance, * * * an alien or a stranger born, for so long a time as he continues within the dominions of a foreign government, owes obedience to the laws of that government * * *.'"
The above paragraphs from your own link show you dont understand your own link or claims.
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Aliens as defined by the US can include: resident/nonresident, immigrant/nonimmigrant, asylee and refugee, documented and undocumented ("illegal").
And in each case it is further defined by that aliens actual status. So what.
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They have a duty to obey all laws. Not that they have to.
The Schooner Exchange does that from 1812.
Last edited by Attus Black; 08-20-2013 at 10:32 PM..
Because its one of those "specifically excluded" items that undocumented aliens can't do.
SOFA agreements wont allow it. Neither will your own link of Fletes, but then you dont really understand what you are linking to to begin with, you seem to be doing internet searches for key words and then thinking they will somehow save your argument. Each time, thy disprove your own claims.
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and undocumented aliens are protected by the US Constitution;
illegals are protected by the due process clauses of the USC (5th and 6th) and the Equal Protection clause of the 14th. So what. Their protections are limited, so are their rights.
Last edited by Attus Black; 08-20-2013 at 10:34 PM..
False. Whether they did not register for the Selective Service before attaining age 26 has no impact on gaining legal residency. Where it will become an issue is when they attempt to naturalize (from that legal residency), because they didn't satisfy their obligation.
False? An illegal gaining legal residency requires an act from congress or an IJ declaring some sort of legal status. Dont mix illegals with those here legally, 2 separate issues. Yes, they can be denied legal residency for failing to file, provided they were here and should have filed. Some legal immigrants can even be denied an adjustment/change of status for failing to file.
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You aren't understanding the Selective Service registration. Even disabled or unqualified males must register. The draft boards later determine fitness for duty based on need.
DUH! Im not understanding the SS registration? Ive served, done my time. Im not the one mixing the apple cart here.
No. They aren't required to register for Selective Service.
His own link of Fletes should have told him that.
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"By allegiance is meant the obligation of fidelity and obedience which the individual owes to the government under which he lives, or to his sovereign in return for the protection he receives. It may be an absolute and permanent obligation, or it may be a qualified and temporary one. The citizen or subject owes an absolute and permanent allegiance to his government or sovereign, or at least until, by some open and distinct act, he renounces it and becomes a citizen or subject of another government or another sovereign. The alien, whilst domiciled in the country, owes a local and temporary allegiance, which continues during the period of his residence.
If Wong Kim Ark's parent's didn't need an LPR card back in 1871 to establish a permanent domicile, why are you insisting that it is now required for such status?
Back then it was the Treaty of Tientsin (1858) and Burlingame Treaty (1868) that allowed for WKA parents to establish a permanent domicile in the US, it denied them the ability to naturalize. Gray points this out
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By the treaty between the United States and China, made July 28, 1868, and promulgated February 5, 1870, it was provided that nothing herein contained shall be held to confer naturalization upon citizens of the United States in China, nor upon the subjects of China in the United States.
False? An illegal gaining legal residency requires an act from congress or an IJ declaring some sort of legal status...
You referred to illegal aliens able to legalize earlier, wouldn't there be other methods? Adjustment of status (married to a U.S. citizen) after a visa overstay? I-601 waiver?
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Originally Posted by Attus Black
...Dont mix illegals with those here legally, 2 separate issues. Yes, they can be denied legal residency for failing to file, provided they were here and should have filed...
Again, you are alluding to someone attempting legal residency from being an illegal alien, validating that a more common route (or more than one) than an act of Congress (private bill) or appearing before an immigration judge exists...
Since the common pathways of that come from being married to a U.S. citizen, and there were certain violations typically waived (like working without authorization, and/or being illegally present) in that process, that can be one of them...
"Those here legally": I sponsored a wife and stepchildren to immigrate...
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Originally Posted by Attus Black
...DUH! Im not understanding the SS registration? Ive served, done my time. Im not the one mixing the apple cart here.
Thank You for your service, from a career vet...
Of course the Selective Service process and policies really aren't learned by just being a servicemember...
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Originally Posted by Attus Black
NOTE:
Immigrants who did not enter the United States or maintained their lawful non-immigrant status by continually remaining on a valid visa until after they were 26 years old, were never required to register
Of course a male that entered the United States after age 26 (or was in a valid non-immigrant category until that age) is not supposed to register...
So we're somewhat agreed on this thread that illegal alien males are required to register for the Selective Service, when some categories of non-immigrants are not?...
You referred to illegal aliens able to legalize earlier, wouldn't there be other methods? Adjustment of status (married to a U.S. citizen) after a visa overstay? I-601 waiver?
Certainly, although visa overstays are merely considered "out-of-status" and are not illegal in the same sense as those that enter without inspection.
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Of course a male that entered the United States after age 26 (or was in a valid non-immigrant category until that age) is not supposed to register...
They are not "required" to register.
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So we're somewhat agreed on this thread that illegal alien males are required to register for the Selective Service, when some categories of non-immigrants are not?...
Never denied it. Agree with it.
Now, illegals can not join our military unless granted some sort of legality from Congress.
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The adoption of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 revised section 101(a)(13)
to eliminate the concept of “entry” from the immigration framework, and replaced it
with a paradigm that distinguishes among aliens based on whether
they were lawfully admitted into the United States or illegally
entered the country.
207
In the current version, which reflects the
1996 amendments, section 101(a)(13) uses the term “admission,”
which is defined as “the lawful entry of the alien into the United
States after inspection and authorization by an immigration
officer.”
208
An alien who has not been lawfully admitted is subject
to removal proceedings in accordance with INA section 240,
notwithstanding his length of residence in the United States.
209
Although physically present within the United States, aliens who
are not admitted into the country are not considered U.S.
residents.
210
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