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Old 10-05-2013, 03:29 PM
 
11,770 posts, read 9,095,678 times
Reputation: 3436

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Quote:
Originally Posted by modestproposer View Post
The most recent Swiss basic income for every citizens is equal to $3000. May I suggest the US does likewise. The US population in 2012 was 313 million. If every person gets $3000 per year, it would cost $0.934 trillion annually compared to the current QE sum of $85 billion monthly or $1.02 trillion annually essentially paid to the banks and used to prop up the stock market with little benefit to the labor market or GDP. Imagine the enormous impact on GDP since at least the lower 50 % would spent it and thus boost GDP by about $0.5 trillion. Worth a try Congress and Obama.
I addressed that earlier in this thread. Take a look. The currency differences need to be taken into account. Also, they have more of a gap between the FPL and min wage, so it is easier to make this proposal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lycos679 View Post
That's more than min wage, which was not what I said.

$1,350/month = $16,200/year

FPL: $11,490/yr or $957.50 a month
USA min: 7.25/hr; or, $15,080/yr; $1256.70/month

FPL: 2,200 CHF/month
Swiss min: 2,900 CHF/month
SW proposal: 2,500 CHF/month

It's much easier for the Swiss to make this proposal because they have more room between their FPL and the min wage made by domestic helpers. Switzerland has no true minimum wage because everybody is covered by a different collective bargaining agreement, but domestic helpers get paid the least.

Then you have to pay taxes.
15.3% FICA
Federal income
Possibly state income
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Old 10-05-2013, 06:19 PM
 
72,801 posts, read 34,035,874 times
Reputation: 10034
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
I don't see any problem with that, after all those at the top earn incredibly much.
Not really. Annual income in the top 5%, the income level at which one's effective federal income tax rate jumps from under 12% to over 20%, starts at only $161,600. Such earners aren't all that rich.
Summary of Latest Federal Income Tax Data
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Old 10-05-2013, 11:23 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
23,616 posts, read 20,855,425 times
Reputation: 9178
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Not really. Annual income in the top 5%, the income level at which one's effective federal income tax rate jumps from under 12% to over 20%, starts at only $161,600. Such earners aren't all that rich.
Summary of Latest Federal Income Tax Data
Yeah, those jumps from one bracket to the next are a problem in many countries. I don't understand why they don't develop a simpler, yet completely progressive formula, where basically every additional dollar of income results in a new bracket so to speak.

Anyway, $160k+ is a whole lot of money. My brother has a 6-digit Euro income per year (thus he is officially rich), and despite living in a very expensive city, the money keeps piling up in his bank account. Yet he keeps complaining about taxes (which in his case are 40+%)
Plus, many of those who earn beyond the $160k mark, earn a whole lot more, more like $1.6m or $16m.
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Old 10-06-2013, 05:42 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Anyway, $160k+ is a whole lot of money.
Not really. It's just 2.67 times the equivalent income a person would have to earn to take home an equivalent amount of money that an average single mother of two welfare recipient gets in Hawaii.
Quote:
A new report by Cato Institute, which examines the state-by-state value of welfare for a mother of two, said benefits in Hawaii average $49,175 - tops in the nation.

Michael Tanner, co-author of the Cato study, said that since welfare isn’t taxed, a person would have to earn $60,590 in Hawaii to take home the same $49,175 a person on welfare would.
It pays not to work: Hawaii residents receive highest welfare benefits in US | Hawaii Reporter

When Welfare Pays Better than Work | Cato Institute
2013 Report:
http://object.cato.org/sites/cato.or...ff_2013_wp.pdf
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Old 10-06-2013, 05:49 AM
 
72,801 posts, read 34,035,874 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Plus, many of those who earn beyond the $160k mark, earn a whole lot more, more like $1.6m or $16m.
Actually, no. As income amount rises, the number of people at that income level and above drops off substantially.

A $1.6 million income is the top 0.1%, not even the top 1%. So a $1.6 million income is only the top 2% of the 5% of federal income tax filers paying an effective tax rate of 20% or more.

To put that in numbers, it's only 135,000 people, out of the U.S. population of 314 million. Many? No. Very, very few. Which is why it's a MAJOR mistake to rely on them for most of the federal income tax revenue.
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Old 10-06-2013, 08:20 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
23,616 posts, read 20,855,425 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Not really. It's just 2.67 times the equivalent income a person would have to earn to take home an equivalent amount of money that an average single mother of two welfare recipient gets in Hawaii.It pays not to work: Hawaii residents receive highest welfare benefits in US | Hawaii Reporter

When Welfare Pays Better than Work | Cato Institute
2013 Report:
http://object.cato.org/sites/cato.or...ff_2013_wp.pdf
So? All that shows is that welfare recipients get a lot on Hawaii. $160k per year is a whole lot of money.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ted_States.png
And that diagram is not even on income per capita, but per household. So for one person $160k is even more money.


Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Actually, no. As income amount rises, the number of people at that income level and above drops off substantially.

A $1.6 million income is the top 0.1%, not even the top 1%. So a $1.6 million income is only the top 2% of the 5% of federal income tax filers paying an effective tax rate of 20% or more.

To put that in numbers, it's only 135,000 people, out of the U.S. population of 314 million. Many? No. Very, very few. Which is why it's a MAJOR mistake to rely on them for most of the federal income tax revenue.
I think it makes perfect sense to rely on the wealthy and rich because they are the ones that know how to maintain their wealth or even increase it. A few may cease to be wealthy, others become wealthy. But the bulk of the wealthy and rich remain, actually they are getting richer all the time.
The middle class is shrinking, and mostly downwards. So they can't be relied on so much.

My brother's income is about $130k and he pays about 45% in income tax, and rightly so.
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Old 10-06-2013, 08:27 AM
 
Location: Plymouth Meeting, PA.
4,692 posts, read 2,368,911 times
Reputation: 2280
Why would we want that?
Just give out free money to people? I thought that was what wefare reform was about.
Its not the governments job to make sure you have a living. You want to suck off the public tit, move to
switzerland.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof View Post
They're talking about $2700 per month per citizen without conditions. SWISS REVIEW - Basic income – better off without working?

If they can afford it, could we? Might it be cheaper than the current system?
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Old 10-06-2013, 08:28 AM
 
Location: Plymouth Meeting, PA.
4,692 posts, read 2,368,911 times
Reputation: 2280
right. lets keep funding the lazy in this country. Why should I work if I can have the government wipe my azz all the time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamme73 View Post
I think the basic guaranteed income is the way to go to help low wage workers and all Americans.
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Old 10-06-2013, 08:31 AM
 
Location: Plymouth Meeting, PA.
4,692 posts, read 2,368,911 times
Reputation: 2280
Do you believe its the governments job now to make sure everyone has a living?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
So? All that shows is that welfare recipients get a lot on Hawaii. $160k per year is a whole lot of money.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ted_States.png
And that diagram is not even on income per capita, but per household. So for one person $160k is even more money.




I think it makes perfect sense to rely on the wealthy and rich because they are the ones that know how to maintain their wealth or even increase it. A few may cease to be wealthy, others become wealthy. But the bulk of the wealthy and rich remain, actually they are getting richer all the time.
The middle class is shrinking, and mostly downwards. So they can't be relied on so much.

My brother's income is about $130k and he pays about 45% in income tax, and rightly so.
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Old 10-06-2013, 08:32 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
23,616 posts, read 20,855,425 times
Reputation: 9178
Quote:
Originally Posted by FKD19124 View Post
right. lets keep funding the lazy in this country. Why should I work if I can have the government wipe my azz all the time?
Most people actually want to work and do something meaningful, but only if they are rewarded appropriately. Inadequate income is one of the main reasons for people to cease to be willing to work.
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