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As long as you dont come to me for more tax dollars, jack up my premiums so I have to fund redudant health and human services, pass laws that end up costing me the consumer I would love to check out of this argument. The problem is the solution to all your problems are always connected to my pay check
Do what ever ya have to improve your quality of life or standard of living
Dont tread on me
those are NOT racial issues. and if you think they are racial issues then my first impression of you was correct. I don't need you tax dollars or any hand outs from you.
Do you understand my example about a group of 5 guys, where 4 of them casually accept the 5th's racism? Why would a minority want to join that group, regardless if the other 4 aren't racist? That 5th racist is still in the group, and it's clear the other 4 don't respect the dignity of any minorities enough to either shut him up or cast him out.
You have no proof that is what happening. As I said, we have used up any useful discussion about this subject. You have your preconceived and biased notions about conservatives in general and nothing I can say would change your mind. Leave it alone already. You're beating a dead horse to death. End of story.
You have no proof that is what happening. As I said, we have used up any useful discussion about this subject. You have your preconceived and biased notions about conservatives in general and nothing I can say would change your mind. Leave it alone already. You're beating a dead horse to death. End of story.
So in your mind, racism is dead. There have been no cases of racism over the last 30 years where it would have been appropriate for Conservatives to make a show of intolerance for racism?
So in your mind, racism is dead. There have been no cases of racism over the last 30 years where it would have been appropriate for Conservatives to make a show of intolerance for racism?
I have never said that!!!! I said that it isn't what it used to be and whites are not the only racists ones in this country today. I know of many white conservatives that oppose racism myself included. What should they do stand in a public square and make a public announcement? Go on tv and publicly renounce racism? How about other Americans or is it only white, conservatives that are obligated to do that to satisfy black Americans? Do you know every white conservative in this country to make the claim that they all tolerate racism? No you don't! Do you need a whip to keep beating that dead horse? What part of end of story aren't you getting? I have no further need to discuss this subject with you. Got it now?????
I have never said that!!!! I said that it isn't what it used to be and whites are not the only racists ones in this country today. I know of many white conservatives that oppose racism myself included. Do you know every white conservative in this country to make the claim that they all tolerate racism? No you don't! Do you need a whip to keep beating that dead horse? What part of end of story aren't you getting? I have no further need to discuss this subject with you. Got it now?????
I don't understand why you wouldn't want to discuss this. If racism isn't dead, then what efforts have Conservatives as a whole made to address it and root it out?
That was my question from the beginning, but people have a tendency to go on tangents. Like I said earlier, I can't think of a single example of Conservatives as a group coming out against a racist act or ideal.
You may oppose racism, but what have you done to call attention to it when it raises its head?
I don't understand why you wouldn't want to discuss this. If racism isn't dead, then what efforts have Conservatives as a whole made to address it and root it out?
That was my question from the beginning, but people have a tendency to go on tangents. Like I said earlier, I can't think of a single example of Conservatives as a group coming out against a racist act or ideal.
You may oppose racism, but what have you done to call attention to it when it raises its head?
I have already discussed it with you through several pages of this topic. I have already addressed all of the above also. Do you have aldheimers? I asked you to stop this BS and yet you continue. Welcome to my ignore list.
But let's just say that when large numbers of black immigrants from sub-Saharan African countries arrived in America and became part of the upper-middle class through their own efforts in less than a generation, claims of widespread racism against blacks in America started to look more and more dubious to a lot of people.
there is an excellent piece called Black Like Them by an writer named Malcolm Gladwell from way back in 1996 where he describes how the perception of black immigrants as hardworking, determined, even desperate, have benefitted black immigrants. in this case he discuss west Indian immigrants, but the idea is still the same. it is that perception that benefits immigrants over American blacks, who people still think are lazy, looking for handouts, whiny, etc. it's all about perception. and on top of everything else, then white Americans can say, "see I'm not racist. I hired this west Indians/African, but you are still racist against black Americans.
as a matter of fact, in places where the "black" population is mostly made up of immigrants, Minnesota, Canada, the same immigrants prized in other places are getting a bad rep.
"In his investigation, Gladwell discusses the work of two sociologists, Philip Kasinitz and Jan Rosenberg, in which the duo explored ethnicity's role in obtaining work in Red Hook, Brooklyn. Their findings revealed that local employers preferred hiring "good" minorities, rather immigrants, who offered "a loyalty and a willingness to work and learn not found among the native-born" (Gladwell, 32). The distinction being made by the employers is the dissection of larger ethnic groups, like Hispanic, into smaller categories, like Puerto Rican and Mexican, and then the application of new, more specific, stereotypes to the smaller enclaves, like Puerto Ricans being lazy or Mexicans being hardworking. The reason for this discrepancy is due to the experience of employers with individuals from different ethnic backgrounds. From their experience, employers generalize the traits they have observed in individuals to define entire groups of people. This is an attempt by the employers to hire more able employees based on their ethnic background because they believe it reflects the employee's work ethic."
Last edited by Californian34; 08-29-2013 at 06:05 PM..
When an African American and an African immigrant are standing at a counter or walking down the street, most people will not understand enough of a difference between the two to be selectively racist towards one of them and not racist towards the other one. They basically look alike.
From your second point, the logical conclusion is that if a greater percentage of African Americans pushed themselves to study harder in school and took advantage of opportunities in higher education, then that would lead to greater financial success in life.
anyone who has lived in a city with a large African immigrant population can tell the difference.
It never stopped being a valid issue. I think there is this huge disconnect between the America we say we want and America as it exists.
So you have a strain of political thinking that supposes that racism was only what the federal or state government did to black Americans, that essentially the government forced private industry to discriminate against black Americans and once that barrier was eliminated, well discrimination becomes not a problem anymore, and that now everything will just sort of work itself out.
Then you have the other view which is much more complicated and nuanced and therefore unpopular that says that in actuality racial discrimination was a public-private partnership, and that these barriers weren't always explicitly racist, yet the intent and impact of those barriers were explicitly racist.
This is a much more difficult discussion to have, because it requires looking at stats that kind of show racial discrimination indirectly by consistently different outcomes between racial groups.
I think one approach attempts to deal with the real world. And the other approach at best can be called fairytale nonsense, but at worst support for the status quo of racial discrimination to continue.
But this nation is dominated by white Americans, discussions of racism that relies on stats and disparate impact aren't going to mean much, especially when so many white Americans themselves are struggling with the changing economy.
Yet and still, racial discrimination against black Americans especially in employment I think is so proven when one looks at employment stats that one has to be willfully blind not to see it. And yet one political party denies reality and the other is too afraid to push a lot of the times.
yep. the employment stats don't lie. o/t, I could never understand how some could complain about aa in hiring and then out of the other side of their mouth say black people just want hand outs like welfare checks and "Obama phones". most of us just want a job to pay our bills and live our lives.
When an African American and an African immigrant are standing at a counter or walking down the street, most people will not understand enough of a difference between the two to be selectively racist towards one of them and not racist towards the other one. They basically look alike.
From your second point, the logical conclusion is that if a greater percentage of African Americans pushed themselves to study harder in school and took advantage of opportunities in higher education, then that would lead to greater financial success in life.
Both your points are wrong.
I live in a neighborhood with both a large African-American and large African immigrant population. I, as well as everyone else around here, can tell the difference between an African-American and an African immigrant instantly. It obvious from their dress, speech, body language, and a dozen other things. Either you live in am area with little diversity, or you've not been paying attention.
The logical conclusion of my second point is not that African-Americans are somehow culturally inferior to Africans. Clearly, you didn't understand what I wrote, or (more likely) you just sort glanced at it without really reading it carefully. Let me make it shorter: the Africans who are successful in the US come mostly from the upper classes of their own countries. African immigrants to the US are in no way typical of the people in those countries. They tend to be wealthier and better educated than the vast majority of the population in their countries they come from.
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