Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
And I would say that we, Christians who support gay marriage, might say that perhaps it is you who does not understand what the Word of God says, nor what it truly means to be Christian. First of all, I would recommend that you do not use any Bible that has the word "homosexual" in it since that word never appeared in any of the original texts.
When you become able to read Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic, then you can tell me what Bible I can use. Frankly, I find it best to use one that I can understand in my own language. But I use the KJV, so you don't have to worry your pretty little head.
Quote:
Originally Posted by txdave35
So do you just ignore verses like this:
Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
Romans 1:25-27
Seems pretty obvious to me.
And me. But obviously not to everyone else.
And then there's everything about how a man leaves his father and mother and cleaves onto his WIFE (not his husband)... and "because there is so much sexual immorality, every man should have his own WIFE (not husband) and every woman her own HUSBAND (not wife)"... and how, when God said "it is not good for man to be alone - I shall create a helper suitable for him" (often translated "a help meet"), He created a WOMAN... not another man....... all of this is very conveniently ignored by the liberal populace which seeks to interpret the Bible so that it justifies whatever they want it to justify. That's a tale as old as time....
2 Peter 2:1-3 "But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep. "
Romans 16:17 "I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. "
My natural sexual relations are with another woman. It would be against my nature to have sex with a man
"My natural sexual relations are with a female sheep. It would be against my nature to have sex with anything or anyone other than a female sheep. Therefore I should be given the same rights and protections under the law as everyone else."
Lemme guess... you'd bring up "consent" again. What about the farmers who slaughter their sheep for meat? Even better - YOUNG sheep, called lambs! Such a delicacy! I'd bet the lambs had to consent to THAT!
I do grow tired of you interpreting the Bible so that it justifies what you want it to justify. You'll "keep it simple" with the "love your neighbor" philosophy but when it talks about homosexuality you talk about original words and historical contexts and blah blah blah blah. The hypocrisy is obvious.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheepie2000
Often what appears obvious in the Bible is anything but obvious. If it were so simple to read and understand, priests and pastors wouldn't need to spend years in seminary to understand it!
They don't need to spend years in seminary to understand it. They need to spend years in seminary to become able to teach it to recalcitrant people who argue with them about its original meaning and its historical context and what they think the Bible really means. Most people who go to seminary already know what's up. They're just empowering themselves for battle with the forces of evil. It's the same thing as someone signing up for the US military. They know why they're doing it and they have a fair idea of how to do it. They just need to get really good at it because the enemy forces, regardless of how evil they are, have strengthened themselves for battle as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheepie2000
jjrose answered so well that I don't think I need to repeat it. The word used here is "natural" not "normal" but even so, it's not a perfect translation of "physikos." If you're interested in the topic, you may have already read this article, but I think it's very worthwhile. And it addresses this very passage. Clobbering "Biblical" Gay Bashing - The God Article
There's no depth to which people won't stoop, to try to shut Christians up by convoluting their Bible such that they can argue that it says "yes" when it really says "no" and vice versa. You're not fooling anyone and neither is the writer of that article. Even if everything y'all have been saying so far is true, woman was created for man because man was not meant to be alone. If the best companion for a man was another man, God would have created another man for Adam. If the best companion for a woman was another woman, God would have created two women in the beginning (or perhaps after the two men). There's no getting around THIS one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7
No! The English version is the one true version of the Bible! Especially the King James version, commissioned by bisexual King James.
Bisexual King James. Is that anything like bisexual Santa Claus, the bisexual Pope, and bisexual George Washington? I love how you ascribe bisexuality to King James when no proof exists thereof.
The allegations of his male courtiers being lovers were never substantiated and have been rebutted by other authorities. But if it fits your particular purpose to call him bisexual, I suppose that's not beneath your dignity, eh?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 0marvin0
It seems you are using your particular interpretation of the Bible which might not be a correct interpretation.
I didn't make the interpretation. The King James version of the Bible has been held as an authority for centuries. To discredit it means you discredit the ability of God to work through the translators, knowing full well that billions of humans would use this translation as THE WORD OF GOD for centuries.
Really... you're scraping the bottom of the barrel.[/quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyMack
You defined my definition of those of low IQ, thanks.
You, sir, have only a 0.03% statistical likelihood of being more intelligent than I am. And no, I did not make up that number. I was tested by a competent, licensed psychologist with a doctorate degree and determined to have an IQ within the "genius" level. I compared my number to a normal distribution of human IQ scores and converted it to a z-score based upon the standard deviation. From that, I determined that my IQ is higher than that of 99.97% of the human population. Can you say the same, or better?
If not, I suggest you stop getting out of line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyMack
The 14 year old girl does NOT have the mental or social maturity to consent to a marriage to a perverted old man(you said it, I didn't)
Most do not. Almost all, I'd imagine. But what of those who do?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyMack
So when do we start executing all the athletes, store workers, restaurant workers, police, firemen, etc., etc., etc. that work on the Sabbath ?
And you claim that I have a low IQ. I guess this is from whence cometh "it takes one to know one".
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyMack
What about those that wear clothes of mixed fabrics? Take a look at the tag on your shirt, slacks, undies ... OOOPS
Woolen and linen, bub. That's all it says. And do you know what "linen" means?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyMack
We start testing brides to see if they are virgins and they are executed if they are not? Why only them and not the male?
Come up with a way of physically testing a man to see if he's a virgin, the way a woman can be physically tested. You've piqued my interest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyMack
All those misbehaving children, I guess the school system's financial problems would go away .. but maybe not since we will be executing EVERYONE that worked on the sabbath, we will have many good children with no parents.
Did you know that "honor the Sabbath and keep it holy" is the one Commandment that was not duplicated in the New Testament?
However, I still hold it to be a good one.
I don't, however, understand what it has to do with whether or not "mission creep" will eventually cause polygamy, bestiality, pedophilia, and incest to become legal in some ways if not all ways. For all your claim of superior IQ, you seem to have a tough time with the simple task of staying on topic.
do grow tired of you interpreting the Bible so that it justifies what you want it to justify. You'll "keep it simple" with the "love your neighbor" philosophy but when it talks about homosexuality you talk about original words and historical contexts and blah blah blah blah. The hypocrisy is obvious
I do grow tired of you basing your bigotry on your holy book. It's your book, not ours. You can bleat about sin and commandments all you want. If SSM marriage bothers you, don't marry a dude. If you want to live by the bible, knock yourself out. I couldn't care less if you wanted to live by Harry Potter or Fifty Shade of Grey. No skin off my nose. That being said, your superstitions are YOURS. If you want to base your life on them, that's fine. Don't step on cracks, don't wear red socks on Tuesdays, carry the amputated limb of a dismembered bunny for luck. Doesn't mean we all have to.
"I didn't make the interpretation. The King James version of the Bible has been held as an authority for centuries. To discredit it means you discredit the ability of God to work through the translators, knowing full well that billions of humans would use this translation as THE WORD OF GOD for centuries."
There haven't been billions of people in the world for centries let alone christians using the king James version of the Bible. But given your hubris the fact that this escapes your abilities to think doesn't surprise me.
As you can see by RamanGypsy's repeatedly long posts, he/she is trying to reinforce her own beliefs. Clearly, we are dealing with some serious identity issues and I think its detrimental to his/her mental health for us to indulge the behavior with responses. Start ignoring it and it will just go away.
Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
Romans 1:25-27
Seems pretty obvious to me.
Why did you remove that verse from its context of worshipping animal statutes in pagan temples? Are you aware that Saint Augustine even said that verse is condemning heterosexuals? Are you also aware, by your logic, that Romans 2 would then be declaring you yourself gay?
Romans 1 also never says same-sex behavior is the sin, it says it's God's punishment against heterosexuals for their idolatry. It's painfully obvious your understanding of the Bible is wrong.
As you can see by RamanGypsy's repeatedly long posts, he/she is trying to reinforce her own beliefs. Clearly, we are dealing with some serious identity issues and I think its detrimental to his/her mental health for us to indulge the behavior with responses. Start ignoring it and it will just go away.
"My natural sexual relations are with a female sheep. It would be against my nature to have sex with anything or anyone other than a female sheep. Therefore I should be given the same rights and protections under the law as everyone else."
Lemme guess... you'd bring up "consent" again. What about the farmers who slaughter their sheep for meat? Even better - YOUNG sheep, called lambs! Such a delicacy! I'd bet the lambs had to consent to THAT!
Is slaughtering an animal a legally binding contract? No? Marriage, however is, and a sheep can not give legally binding consent to enter into a contract.
Look we can all agree to disagree right? That's the only thing we can do, however I think the main problem is that people don't respect each other. Belive it or not, but there are good (and bad) people on both sides of this "issue ". And I think both sides lack this wisdom.
To those who oppose gay marriage (and I am one) : It's important to not hate or resort to homophobic bigotry. Wether you like it or not, gays are people too and deserve the same respect as we enjoy. Why do some of you guys care so much about how gay people have sex? Lol its not any of our business. If you are a Christian like me you would know that Jesus would love the gay person just like he would love us. Remember God loves the sinner but hates the sin, don't attack gay people, simply disagree with them and leave them alone. This doesn't mean that we should support gay marriage (we certainly should not) but there is no reason to get so upset about it.
To the gay community: You guys really need to calm down and learn to respect those of us who disagree with you. We are not homophobic, nor do we hate you either. We just disagree with gay marriage and your lifestyle, and you know what? We have every right to! Stop trying to force Christians to support something that violates our deeply held beliefs, stop trying to bully businesses just because the don't support your agenda. No I don't know why you are gay, and I don't really care, but there is no proof that you were born gay either. So stop saying that until you have actual proof and quit denying evidence that doesn't support the born gay belief. Tolerance goes both ways, and right now many of you are not practicing what you preach.
Really we should just learn to respect each others differences and live and let live. You are not going to change anyone's mind on the Internet. Save it all for the voting booth.
Look we can all agree to disagree right? That's the only thing we can do, however I think the main problem is that people don't respect each other. Belive it or not, but there are good (and bad) people on both sides of this "issue ". And I think both sides lack this wisdom.
To those who oppose gay marriage (and I am one) : It's important to not hate or resort to homophobic bigotry. Wether you like it or not, gays are people too and deserve the same respect as we enjoy. Why do some of you guys care so much about how gay people have sex? Lol its not any of our business. If you are a Christian like me you would know that Jesus would love the gay person just like he would love us. Remember God loves the sinner but hates the sin, don't attack gay people, simply disagree with them and leave them alone. This doesn't mean that we should support gay marriage (we certainly should not) but there is no reason to get so upset about it.
To the gay community: You guys really need to calm down and learn to respect those of us who disagree with you. We are not homophobic, nor do we hate you either. We just disagree with gay marriage and your lifestyle, and you know what? We have every right to! Stop trying to force Christians to support something that violates our deeply held beliefs, stop trying to bully businesses just because the don't support your agenda. No I don't know why you are gay, and I don't really care, but there is no proof that you were born gay either. So stop saying that until you have actual proof and quit denying evidence that doesn't support the born gay belief. Tolerance goes both ways, and right now many of you are not practicing what you preach.
Really we should just learn to respect each others differences and live and let live. You are not going to change anyone's mind on the Internet. Save it all for the voting booth.
And I don't hate you, I just disagree with your beliefs, and you having the same rights and protections as other American citizens.
To those who oppose gay marriage (and I am one) : It's important to not hate or resort to homophobic bigotry. Wether you like it or not, gays are people too and deserve the same respect as we enjoy.
I'm sorry, but wanting to deny me equal access to and equal treatment under the law is not respectful. It's the opposite.
Quote:
Really we should just learn to respect each others differences and live and let live.
Hahahahahaha. You're telling me to live and let live? I'm more than willing to do that. I have no desire to see you denied access to civil marriage law and the legal rights it confers. How about you follow your own advice and show me the same courtesy?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
