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(quick side note: I always find it sadly hypocritical that the resistance of SSM usually tends to come from the right, since the right always is the first to wave the flag and talk about their personal freedoms being taken away.)
Thank you so much for saying this! The religious right is unbelievably hypocritical on nearly every issue. Religious freedom: I can hate gay people because it's my faith; but a Mosque near ground zero! NEVER!
I'm actually quite informed, and I see the real agenda going on now that gays have some political power. I see things like Christian business owners being forced to close shop if they dare hold onto traditional morals and speak out against an act that goes against the laws of nature. It's nothing more than a power grab through intimidation. Besides, the pope is not saying that he approves of homosexuality.
The issue is a lot bigger than just equal rights.
A country that is clearly secular frowning upon businesses that discriminate for religious reasons... what an outrage?
What are traditional morals? A man marries a woman and that woman is not the man's property? I believe that's actually the biblical definition of marriage.
Laws of nature? If God made laws of nature to deny homosexuality, he did a poor job. It's incredibly common among a variety of species. Not to mention, marriage is technically unnatural.
I guarantee the pope is accepting of homosexuals. He can't just say it because of the position he's in. What he basically said was this: "I don't care if someone is gay, it's not my place to judge; if they are kind people, I have no problem."
I'm actually quite informed, and I see the real agenda going on now that gays have some political power.
Like how the Christians/Religious have been trying to do as well?
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I see things like Christian business owners being forced to close shop if they dare hold onto traditional morals and speak out against an act that goes against the laws of nature.
Yes, because when they are shown to be the bigots they are, people will stop patronizing their business. Why give money to a known bigot, if he/she is actively using his earned money (from me) to support bigotry?
So, they will be forced to close up shop, because their customer base will shrink.
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It's nothing more than a power grab through intimidation. Besides, the pope is not saying that he approves of homosexuality.
Unlike the intimidation of the religious nut jobs, over the last 200 years, that have tried to but in on every social issue since the dawn of this country?
Women's reproductive rights - spare the unborn but don't give a rat's patootie about the hundreds of thousands of born children who live in poor conditions, are in foster care
Gay marriage - don't let them gays get married, yet I'm on my 4th marriage; and that divorce rates are at 49%.
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The issue is a lot bigger than just equal rights.
yes, the issue is lot bigger. its to make sure that religious nut jobs aren't influencing politics with their bigotry
I'm actually quite informed, and I see the real agenda going on now that gays have some political power. I see things like Christian business owners being forced to close shop if they dare hold onto traditional morals and speak out against an act that goes against the laws of nature. It's nothing more than a power grab through intimidation. Besides, the pope is not saying that he approves of homosexuality.
The issue is a lot bigger than just equal rights.
Ahh "the real agenda" ... and those "gays have some political power" ... whew, do tell, especially about the real agenda, because I'm in the dark on that one!
Here's the thing, when a person opens a business, they're serving the general public. When they choose to discriminate against members of the general public, they're going against discrimination laws already in place. This is not a new concept. Maybe business isn't for a moron who says, "You're gay? You're black? You're Muslim? You're {insert other minority} I don't want your money! Give me that good 'ol white, straight, Christian, 'Murican money!" What IDIOT turns down business!
I never said the Pope was supporting gay rights, but he is logical enough to say, "Ok, Bible thumpers, cool it, you're making us look like idiots. We don't get to decide or judge." With that said, refer back to my, "I've never walked a mile in your shoes" paragraph.
Not to hijack the thread, but let me reverse this a little.
Question for those who oppose SSM.
Why do you care?
Gay people are getting married all over the world with no ill effects on anyone. So here's the challenge, without citing religion (religion is a personal choice, I'm Christian and I support SSM BECAUSE of my religious beliefs, not in spite of them. Many Christian churches are supporting gay rights) So without citing religion, without using a made up slippery slope argument ("if gays can marry, well what's next a lamp shade and my He-Man action figure?") because slippery slopes, like religion, is based on your own OPINION. Without using either of those two "reasons" please explain why you care so much about two members of the opposite sex being married, why you care so much about gay people being treated as equal to you?
If your response is "Well it's because of religion, or it's because of that slippery slope fantasy" then do you admit that you are at the very least being extremely arrogant to think that your opinions and your beliefs should be allowed to dictate the way other people live their own lives?
(quick side note: I always find it sadly hypocritical that the resistance of SSM usually tends to come from the right, since the right always is the first to wave the flag and talk about their personal freedoms being taken away.)
I care because of things like this:
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An Oregon baker with Christian beliefs who was forced to shut down operations after refusing to make a cake for a planned same-sex wedding says her faith in God has not wavered — and in fact, has grown stronger because of the ordeal.
And this is just the beginning. Christian organizations are already being forced to accept gays as leaders. Soon it will required that gays are allowed to be pastors of a church. You might as well have a full on sex display on the altar in a church service if that happens. It is all part of sexual immorality.
seeing as he was providing a public service (public services cannot discriminate) and that he was fine to make cakes for other "non-sanctioned/ against the bible" events/people, he was caught being a hypocrite.
funny how you just read the headlines, and don't even get the full story.
and even in the article you post, the bad press, for being outright bigots, is what destroyed their business. Not gays. Word of mouth and the media attention, made their clients turn away.
ETa: and don't be a hypocrite yourself, when its the ilk of the religious right that picket abortion clinics, harassing women as they go into take care of a personal matter, and some outright murder abortion doctors.
Ahh "the real agenda" ... and those "gays have some political power" ... whew, do tell, especially about the real agenda, because I'm in the dark on that one!
Here's the thing, when a person opens a business, they're serving the general public. When they choose to discriminate against members of the general public, they're going against discrimination laws already in place. This is not a new concept. Maybe business isn't for a moron who says, "You're gay? You're black? You're Muslim? You're {insert other minority} I don't want your money! Give me that good 'ol white, straight, Christian, 'Murican money!" What IDIOT turns down business!
I never said the Pope was supporting gay rights, but he is logical enough to say, "Ok, Bible thumpers, cool it, you're making us look like idiots. We don't get to decide or judge." With that said, refer back to my, "I've never walked a mile in your shoes" paragraph.
The 1st amendment of the Constitution was well in place before recent discrimination laws declared "sexual orientation" as a protected class of citizens.
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Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Now you have a local government creating a law that prevents the free exercise of this couple's deeply held religious beliefs. It's not a a simple case of denying business. This involved becoming an active participate in an event that was offensive to their faith.
The gay couple could have simply went to a different baker and respected the couple's religious beliefs. BUT NO!!!! We must conform and bow down to their ideology.
And this is just the beginning. Christian organizations are already being forced to accept gays as leaders. Soon it will required that gays are allowed to be pastors of a church. You might as well have a full on sex display on the altar in a church service if that happens. It is all part of sexual immorality.
He wasn't forced through the government. He was forced because customers didn't like his views and stopped spending money there.
THAT is the free market at work.
As for christian orgs being forced to accept gays in leadership please provide a link to this, as I haven't seen anything about this.
The 1st amendment of the Constitution was well in place before recent discrimination laws declared "sexual orientation" as a protected class of citizens.
Now you have a local government creating a law that prevents the free exercise of this couple's deeply held religious beliefs. It's not a a simple case of denying business. This involved becoming an active participate in an event that was offensive to their faith.
The gay couple could have simply went to a different baker and respected the couple's religious beliefs. BUT NO!!!! We must conform and bow down to their ideology.
So I can refuse to follow laws if they go against my "religious beliefs"?
Cool. I didn't know religion gave you a get out of jail free card.
I'm actually quite informed, and I see the real agenda going on now that gays have some political power. I see things like Christian business owners being forced to close shop if they dare hold onto traditional morals and speak out against an act that goes against the laws of nature. It's nothing more than a power grab through intimidation. Besides, the pope is not saying that he approves of homosexuality.
The issue is a lot bigger than just equal rights.
Claiming to be informed yet not knowing the meaning of "laws of nature". Interesting.
Being a business owner requires you to follow certain secular laws. Don't like them, don't open a business. It's quite simple.
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