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Old 09-01-2013, 09:54 PM
 
Location: San Diego, CA
10,581 posts, read 9,779,270 times
Reputation: 4174

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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
I am. A flat tax makes total sense. Earn very little; pay very little. Earn A LOT; pay A LOT.
This attitude is based, of course, on the idea that the person who earns a lot doesn't really own what he earns. Rather than being his property, it's the property of all, and can be taken by anyone who needs it.

Our government is based increasingly on this idea. It has to be understood and accepted, if anyone is goinng to believe that taking "A LOT" from those who earn "A LOT", simply because they earned it, is in any way "fair" to someone somewhere.

I'm not objecting to it. Just pointing out what it means.
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Old 09-01-2013, 09:55 PM
 
11,768 posts, read 10,257,576 times
Reputation: 3444
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
What loopholes? They pay 15%. That's 2.5 times the 6.01% tax rate the middle class pays. AND a hell of a lot more than the 51% who pay no federal income tax whatsoever.

Why are you complaining about people who PAY federal income tax?

Total BS. This is what the IRS says the average effective federal income tax rate is for an income of $30K:

6.01%

IRS Data here:
Summary of Latest Federal Income Tax Data
Why are you supporting cronyism and a special tax break for billionaires? They already enjoy the lowest rates in the western world.

Check out the rates for yourself.

Where did my tax dollars go?
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Old 09-01-2013, 09:56 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,971 posts, read 44,780,079 times
Reputation: 13681
Quote:
Originally Posted by lycos679 View Post
Your data closely matches what I posted. If you notice, your data is from 2009.
2010 is the latest data the IRS has made available:
Summary of Latest Federal Income Tax Data

The figure I've seen for 2010 is 47% pay no federal income tax whatsoever.

Why complain about those who DO pay?
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Old 09-01-2013, 09:59 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,971 posts, read 44,780,079 times
Reputation: 13681
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little-Acorn View Post
This attitude is based, of course, on the idea that the person who earns a lot doesn't really own what he earns. Rather than being his property, it's the property of all, and can be taken by anyone who needs it.

Our government is based increasingly on this idea. It has to be understood and accepted, if anyone is goinng to believe that taking "A LOT" from those who earn "A LOT", simply because they earned it, is in any way "fair" to someone somewhere.

I'm not objecting to it. Just pointing out what it means.
I realize that. And there's STILL the problem of some people WAY overpaying for the government services and benefits they get, while others fail to contribute enough to cover their own costs. Consequently, it's still not fair, but at least with a flat tax, everyone pays.
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Old 09-01-2013, 10:15 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,971 posts, read 44,780,079 times
Reputation: 13681
Quote:
Originally Posted by lycos679 View Post
Why are you supporting cronyism and a special tax break for billionaires?
What tax breaks? They're PAYING federal income tax.

Those who pay no federal income tax whatsoever are the ones getting the biggest tax breaks. How do you not understand that?

Look at income share:

Top 0.1% - 9.24%

Bottom 50% (those most likely to pay no federal income tax) - 11.74%
Summary of Latest Federal Income Tax Data


The group that pays no federal income tax has more of an income share than those who earn $1.634 million or more (not even billionaires). THEY'RE the ones getting the biggest tax breaks.

Here's proof: Federal Income Tax Share, paid by income group:

The top 0.1% earned 9.24% of the income but paid 17.88% of the federal income tax revenue.

The bottom 50% earned a higher 11.74% of the income but only paid 2.36% of the federal income tax revenue.
Summary of Latest Federal Income Tax Data

The biggest tax breaks are given to those who pay no federal income tax.
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Old 09-01-2013, 10:24 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,971 posts, read 44,780,079 times
Reputation: 13681
More info:

The top 1% earns 18.87% of the income, but pays a whopping 37.38% of the federal income tax revenue.
Summary of Latest Federal Income Tax Data

It's a myth that the rich get tax breaks. Anyone would have to be extremely stupid to believe that leftist propaganda BS. The rich are actually paying TWICE their fair share.
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Old 09-01-2013, 10:33 PM
 
11,768 posts, read 10,257,576 times
Reputation: 3444
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
What tax breaks? They're PAYING federal income tax.

Those who pay no federal income tax whatsoever are the ones getting the biggest tax breaks. How do you not understand that?

Look at income share:

Top 0.1% - 9.24%

Bottom 50% (those most likely to pay no federal income tax) - 11.74%
Summary of Latest Federal Income Tax Data


The group that pays no federal income tax has more of an income share than those who earn $1.634 million or more (not even billionaires). THEY'RE the ones getting the biggest tax breaks.

Here's proof: Federal Income Tax Share, paid by income group:

The top 0.1% earned 9.24% of the income but paid 17.88% of the federal income tax revenue.

The bottom 50% earned a higher 11.74% of the income but only paid 2.36% of the federal income tax revenue.
Summary of Latest Federal Income Tax Data

The biggest tax breaks are given to those who pay no federal income tax.
The carried interest exemption allows the manager running hedge funds to pay capital gain rates on their income. Small entrepreneurs and mutual fund managers don't enjoy that advantage.
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Old 09-01-2013, 10:38 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,971 posts, read 44,780,079 times
Reputation: 13681
Quote:
Originally Posted by lycos679 View Post
The carried interest exemption allows the manager running hedge funds to pay capital gain rates on their income. Small entrepreneurs and mutual fund managers don't enjoy that advantage.
They're paying federal income tax, so what's the beef?

47% are paying no federal income tax whatsoever on a LARGER percentage of the total income. THERE'S the problem.
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Old 09-01-2013, 10:46 PM
 
11,768 posts, read 10,257,576 times
Reputation: 3444
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
More info:

The top 1% earns 18.87% of the income, but pays a whopping 37.38% of the federal income tax revenue.
Summary of Latest Federal Income Tax Data

It's a myth that the rich get tax breaks. Anyone would have to be extremely stupid to believe that leftist propaganda BS. The rich are actually paying TWICE their fair share.
We aren't talking about the 1%. If I cashed in my trust I would be in the 1%. What we are talking about is having ordinary income treated as a capital gain because of lobbying from the hedge funds.
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Old 09-01-2013, 10:47 PM
 
11,768 posts, read 10,257,576 times
Reputation: 3444
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
They're paying federal income tax, so what's the beef?

47% are paying no federal income tax whatsoever on a LARGER percentage of the total income. THERE'S the problem.
And when those 47%ers make money they are taxed at ordinary income rates in addition to FICA taxes. The hedge fund manager is exempt.
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