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I find it hilarious, this idea right-wingers have that laws they don't like don't apply.
You mean like liberals who think pot laws don't apply to them? Or that the old anti-sodomy laws don't apply to them? Or that...oh, well I think you get the point.
Not true; you need to learn the definition of "dictatorial." Hint: it has largely to do with the executive branch.
Not so fast. I have been reading yesterday and today law resources, and I am not so sure if a Bakery taking a custom order is covered under the "public accommodation" statutes of Oregon. Remember, selling something off the shelf, and making a cake to a specific order -- these are two different economic activities.
I keep bringing up the "Forced Labor" argument. If the gay couple wanted to buy a cake off the shelf and the Business refused explicitly on the basis of sexual orientation -- that would clearly be discrimination.
But that's not the case here. It is the Labor component that complicates things here --Baker would need to expend labor in order to prepare, and produce one product, specifically for one order, for one customer. That is not in the service of the public.
Here is a Decision Note of Oregon's 659A.400:
"Custom builder who constructs homes for those with whom he contracts after bid process and negotia*tion cannot be said to have offered his services to the public within meaning of this sec*tion. Parsons v. Henry, 65 Or App 627, 672 P2d 717 (1983), Sup Ct review denied"
But the bakery already makes wedding cakes for other people. Why should they be allowed to discriminate against gays? What if the owner thought that he/she should have the right to discriminate against Jews, or blacks, should he also have that right? His was not a private business, it was public. He is just using his religion as an excuse to discriminate, so are many on this forum. Why must you discriminate and find a reason to? Your custom builder is a private business, not public, so the comparison is not there.
well, thankfully, fair housing laws don't apply in the same type of circumstance.
Btw, they didn't refuse to sell cakes to the couple, they refused to bake one for their wedding. Secondly, you left out a pertinent fact: They were christians. I'd like to see them try that at a bakery run by muslims.
wedding planners, bakers, and photographers should all be on notice about what the real gay agenda was and is and that "loving whomever you want" Wasn't the goal at all. Not by a longshot.
By that logic, fewer laws would mean more freedom.
Except, of course, that the absence of laws does not permit the existence of a void. Instead, that void will be filled by people who will, violently, force their will unto others.
A lot like what we see today. A small group of people, relative to the population, gets easily offended that someone doesn't enthusiastically approve of their warped lifestyle and gets the government (the big bully on the street) to force compliance.
But the bakery already makes wedding cakes for other people.
You didn' read what I said -- one custom product, ordered by one customer, with specific specifications for one wedding, not usable by somebody else. Again, gay couple didn't try to buy a cake already made and on the shelf.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDragonslayer
Why should they be allowed to discriminate against gays?
Because it was not a public accommodation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDragonslayer
Why must you discriminate and find a reason to?
I ain't discriminating nobody.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDragonslayer
Your custom builder..
It's not my Custom Builder. It is Oregon's Custom Builder. Go take up the issue with them.
No you didn't. You accused me of missing the point and you called me names.
You have missed the point. Have someone reread my post to you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seabass Inna Bun
You didn't prove anyone was a slave.
Yes I did
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seabass Inna Bun
By the way: who owns these slaves?
government
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seabass Inna Bun
Your argument that having to adhere to the laws of doing business is just like slavery still makes me laugh, BTW and FYI.
Again you've missed the point and laughingly try to make it about something else because you don't have a leg to stand on.
Keep ignoring the fact that you are for Jim Crow laws because, after all, its a law. Government has a right to your property because government said so? Think for once.
Whatever you do, do not address anything I've posted. Instead deflect and ignore.
What the hell does a bakery have to do with the "separation of church and state"? I thought that meant congress could not pass a national religion nor can the infringe on religious liberties. So again, what does that have to do with a bakery?.
Maybe you should "Google it" before you run your mouth at others.
Trying to be snarky and cute when all you are doing to flapping your arms with silly indignation about stuff that doesn't even make sense.
That is so much like a liberal, when they can't win an argument, hide behind the courts and political correctness.
Your religious views do not trump the laws of the land, and cannot, and absolutely should not.
Practice your religion as you will, but if you break the laws agains discrimination (or any others) you are liable regardless of your personal beliefs. if you are that religious (doubtful) you will do your research BEFORE opening a business to see if your beliefs are in conflict with existing law. That's why lawyers get paid.
Rastafarians have said for years that their sacrament is marijuana, and they have a right to smoke it. That is their religious belief. If they are caught smoking it, they are still arrested, tried, and jailed or fined. Their religion, therefore, is separate from the state, and does not override the law.
Nothing snarky and cute about it. It's a fact. BTW - you are the one who seems to be indignant. I am in complete control because I know what I'm talking about. I own two businesses. We don't discriminate, period. We would even sell to religious bigots if they found their way to us.
Your religious views do not trump the laws of the land, and cannot, and absolutely should not.
Practice your religion as you will, but if you break the laws agains discrimination (or any others) you are liable regardless of your personal beliefs. if you are that religious (doubtful) you will do your research BEFORE opening a business to see if your beliefs are in conflict with existing law. That's why lawyers get paid.
Rastafarians have said for years that their sacrament is marijuana, and they have a right to smoke it. That is their religious belief. If they are caught smoking it, they are still arrested, tried, and jailed or fined. Their religion, therefore, is separate from the state, and does not override the law.
Nothing snarky and cute about it. It's a fact. BTW - you are the one who seems to be indignant. I am in complete control because I know what I'm talking about. I own two businesses. We don't discriminate, period. We would even sell to religious bigots if they found their way to us.
It's not very widely known. But in a groundbreaking case, at least one American citizen, a licensed Rastafarian minister in Minnesota, has been openly smoking marijuana daily with a judge's approval for the past year and a half, despite the fact that he is on probation.
Your religious views do not trump the laws of the land, and cannot, and absolutely should not.
Practice your religion as you will, but if you break the laws agains discrimination (or any others) you are liable regardless of your personal beliefs. if you are that religious (doubtful) you will do your research BEFORE opening a business to see if your beliefs are in conflict with existing law. That's why lawyers get paid.
Rastafarians have said for years that their sacrament is marijuana, and they have a right to smoke it. That is their religious belief. If they are caught smoking it, they are still arrested, tried, and jailed or fined. Their religion, therefore, is separate from the state, and does not override the law.
Nothing snarky and cute about it. It's a fact. BTW - you are the one who seems to be indignant. I am in complete control because I know what I'm talking about. I own two businesses. We don't discriminate, period. We would even sell to religious bigots if they found their way to us.
That didn't have to do with a damn thing I said. You ran your mouth about "separation of church and state" I asked you what that had to do with anything and you are now trying to move the goalpost or backtrack.
And come off it. They had no problem backing cakes for this same couple but when they were asked to bake, I.E. labor for a ceremony that went against their religion they couldn't do it. Again, they served this couple before so cut the whole "religious bigots" crap out. Anyone who doesn't toe the liberal line is a bigot, again must the that liberal tolerance. Are we gonna now force holocaust survivors or descendants to labor for Nazis?
Of course you "own two businesses". Everyone on the internet does. Of course you are in complete control , that is why you are backtracking on "separation of church and state". And of course I am the indignant one, that is why I am shouting bigot every other sentence like you. What's your point?
But, like I said since you people can't make an argument you hide behind "the laws of the land". But sometimes it isn't that simple. A couple was refused a cake with their son's Adolf Hitler name on it. It's just a name, the kid isn't actually Hitler himself but that didn't matter. The kid and his parents was discriminated against. Is that bakery an outright "bigot"?
liberals on this thread are feeling pretty full of themselves as if they destroyed these "religious bigots". No, they moved their bakery into their home. So they still get to keep their business without all liberal whack jobs spewing their hate at them and telling them want to do. So you can walk around as if you people accomplished something by getting this bakery shut down when all you people did was show more of more of your liberal intolerance and hate.
Isn't there also the right to be able to freely practice your religion ?
That right is not absolute, and access to public accommodations trumps people's use of religion to discriminate.
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Wasn't the goal at all. Not by a longshot.