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There was a recent study that seemed to show that kids who participate in leagues that don't keep score were more likely to quit or cheat when faced with adversity than kids in leagues that do keep score.
If everyone gets a trophy, then trophies lose all meaning and value.
If goals don't count and everybody wins, the value of effort is diminished as the end result of a "tie" is guaranteed whether you expel great or little effort.
In all aspects of life you win some and you lose some. Everyone loses and fails from time to time. The important thing is to learn from your losses and failures to grow. You can't grow as much if you are insulated from all failures.
First, give me the link to the study. Plus, how do they incorporate the kids who don't play in leagues? How do they do when faced with adversity?
Also, as mentioned earlier, the trophy is for effort, not for results and to the individual child, I maintain that the trophy will have value. If the entire class gets a trophy for learning how to swim, would you say the trophy has no meaning to the child? That the child will be downcast and disappointed when they get it, or when they look at it on their shelf? Really? You think so?
Quote:
Originally Posted by d4g4m
Can you see a losing player at the world cup games whining. 'but, but they told me everyone is a winner, everyone gets a trophy'
Comparing adult players to children is stupid. STUPID. We also pay world cup players hundreds of thousands to play, are you proposing we pay the children hundreds of thousands of dollars to play too?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003
Maybe for you, but most of us wanted to win the first day we played a sport. Wanting to win is a very healthy attitude.
The kids already know the score. The theory is simply don't record the result of the previous week's. Why is this so hard a concept to grasp?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003
Good post. Maybe they shouldn't keep score at the World Cup. We wouldn't want to hurt anybody's feelings.
It's not about hurting anyone's feelings. It's about trying to de-motivate volunteer parent coaching from prioritizing winning over teaching the kids to play the game at a higher level than is required to win (which is often, give the tallest kid the ball and have him boot the ball him from outside the 18 yard box). Why cloud the issue?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason3000
Keeping score has worked since the beginning of mankind.
Really? so the cavemen kept leagues and scores, did they? That's what they wrote on the cavewalls? Sweet jebus.
Not one person, with the possible exception of the person who cited a recent study (but no link to it) has provided any evidence that what the leading minds of the sport are advocating is not a good idea. Instead there are postings about 'the beginning of mankind - so I guess we should just stop developing vaccines and medicines, since they didn't have those in the beginning of mankind either by the way, postings about world cup players, posting about hurt feelings which has nothing to do with it, and more. Good lord. Instead, all I and a few others have done is cite research, evidence, and rational thought, and still there's this gut reaction that this is somehow not smart, and we should just keep doing what we've always done, even if it's not working - with no evidence to support this position, and a mountain against it.
Right that's why US soccer teams are terrible. It has nothing to do with most of the US not giving a damn about soccer, not spending anywhere near as much money on it as other countries and the best athletes going into football, baseball, basketball or probably even hockey before soccer.
You really think so? You think the take-away the average 7 year old child gets from being told by an adult to get out of the way and let other kids play is "I know, I just need to be better and develop a more competitive skill set" and wouldn't be "Daddy that wasn't fun last season, I don't want to sign up again"?
Keep in mind, I am referring to community house league programs that have to take on all registrants and are run by parents, some of whom may never have played soccer before. If your child is able and willing and committed to playing rep league soccer (and possibly riding the pine all summer for 30 minutes of playing) that's fine too.
By the way, how exactly will anyone develop a better and more competitive skill set, if the only instruction they're getting is to get out of the way?
How will they develop a competitive skill set if they don't keep score? Some kids weren't meant to play sports. They usually get weeded out around junior high. Reality is something some can't seem to understand or see.
A recent study of every soccer player in the world showed that kids in score-keeping leagues grow up to be terrible at soccer.
Maybe it's because they only score a goal or two a game so the good athletes move on to other sports. Canada has some good basketball players lately.....Namely Andrew Wiggins who will be the number one pick in the NBA draft this year. He probably got bored and went and picked up a basketball and off he went. Ever heard of Steve Nash? Many others too. Soccer is just boring to many.
Maybe it's because they only score a goal or two a game so the good athletes move on to other sports. Canada has some good basketball players lately.....Namely Andrew Wiggins who will be the number one pick in the NBA draft this year. He probably got bored and went and picked up a basketball and off he went. Ever heard of Steve Nash? Many others too. Soccer is just boring to many.
Nash loves soccer. Obviously his basketball skills were able to make him a ton of money though.
Except, I am telling the truth and you aren't. I couldn't find the same article, but the NY Times picked up the study and talked about it.
The problem with keeping scores is coaches and parents placing too much emphasis on the score and winning.
Not keeping score makes kids more likely to quit or cheat when faced with adversity. Why try your hardest all the time if it literally makes no difference as there is no score?
You are such an Obamabot, you don't even realize when you lie?
"A recent study of every soccer player in the world showed that kids in score-keeping leagues grow up to be terrible at soccer." -you
If you were smart, you would have realized that you just reinforced my point. It is destructive for parents and coaches to yell and emphasize winning over all other things like being healthy, having fun, and developing skills. Keeping score and not giving everyone a trophy in and of itself is not the problem. Bad coaches, bad parents, and etc are.
I'm a little confused if you're agreeing or not agreeing with FrankMiller and I, but it seems you're willing to engage in healthy discourse about it so kudos.
I think what's being missed is that if you agree that it's coaches and parents who are the root problem, that I struggle with why you don't get that eliminating recording standings is designed to solve that root problem. It actually has very little to do with the children. The link to the article wasn't readable, but I'm not suprrised there's an opposite opinion. What I'm not seeing though is a lot of other options on how to fix the problems in real terms (IE 'get better parent volunteers' is not viable, I say that as a convenor of a league with 200 children who appealed to 400 parents for volunteers and got.. 10).
Plus, to the poster who said 'some kids just aren't meant for sports' - why would we accept this? Would we say 'some kids just aren't meant to learn to read?' or 'some kids just aren't meant to learn math?'. There's a difference between excelling at something and just being encouraged to participate. Not keeping standings is not going to disadvantage the talented children in any way and will disadvantage competitive parent-coach's who are trying to recapture glory.
I believe the success or failure of a community house league is the % of kids who sign up again each season. Happy kids sign up again. Unhappy kids don't. So change something, I'm open to other changes. Just railing agaisnt change without proposing other ideas is not helpful.
Nash loves soccer. Obviously his basketball skills were able to make him a ton of money though.
Loved it enough to go pick up a basketball. So are a lot of others which was my point. Thins the field and socccer is boring enough now no score keeping or standings? Lot more will be leaving the sport. That is why it's taken so long to catch on in the US (it is more nowdays) but most go on to different sports as they get older. Ones that are more fun. Hey some love soccer. Play what you want IMO. Just keep score.
And don't just say keep standings because you should.
Not one person on this forum has made a solid case to keep them. They seem to be five 'types' of objection:
1. It's what we've always done.
2. It's bad for the children, it doens't teach them competition.
3. Some kids just aren't built for sports and we shouldn't encourage them.
4. It's wussify our children.
5. If we give trophies to all kids, the kid who receives one will not smile or beam when they get it presented, but junk it immediately.
To which and I'll admit, I'm about ready to give up on, I'd say to each point:
1. That's the dumbest reason in the world to continue anything that isn't working.
2. Really? 7 year old's won't learn competition, except if we keep standings? Ever referee a game that was 20-0 by half-time? Because I have. Trust me, no one was having fun. Why was the score run up? Because in the standings, goal differential was important. That argument depends on it being true that children who don't play sports don't learn anything about competition, which isn't true either.
3. I don't want to be a society that gives up on children who are short when a privilleged few are tall first.
4. I don't see how a generation of fit kids is wussy.
5. Ever give a 6 year old a trophy? You'll never feel better. Give it 30X over? You'll feel 30X better.
So that's it folks, I'm out. Aside from a link to one study (keep in mind, I supplied many links of evidence) where the main point seems to be focused on the fact that kids keep score (duh!, and not the point), no one here who is involved in soccer or sport in general seems able to make a coherent argument otherwise.
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Holistic approach?
