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I think you're lying (perhaps to yourself) about that. If one listens to half the libertarians out there, without the political blinders of one's own personal preference for libertarianism on, one would understand that those libertarians have no problem getting to the point they'd support overturning the Thirteenth Amendment. That's the point which you apparently missed in the comment you replied to.
You need to read information from the proper source. Since you aren't doing that, I'll help you. Here is the preamble to the Libertarian Party platform. You will notice that the entire platform is the opposite of slavery. The only party that supports slavery is the Democratic Party.
"As Libertarians, we seek a world of liberty; a world in which all individuals are sovereign over their own lives and no one is forced to sacrifice his or her values for the benefit of others.
We believe that respect for individual rights is the essential precondition for a free and prosperous world, that force and fraud must be banished from human relationships, and that only through freedom can peace and prosperity be realized.
Consequently, we defend each person's right to engage in any activity that is peaceful and honest, and welcome the diversity that freedom brings. The world we seek to build is one where individuals are free to follow their own dreams in their own ways, without interference from government or any authoritarian power."
Yes. Labor laws are stupid. All thy do is cost a company more money. I can't think of any that are necessary.
And it is not exploitation if an employee AGREES to work a 14 hour day. It would lead to more jobs. As an employee would be able to make more money and wouldn't have to go out and find a second job.
What business is of yours if I wanna work 14 hours a day at the same pay rate? Of course, I could always work with my employer and come up with a agreeable rate of pay for overtime. I don't need arrogant outsiders deciding for me.
This is basically a libertarian proposal, and like most libertarian proposals, it would fail if it were ever applied to the real world. Here's why:
If you didn't want to work 14 hours a day for a low pay rate, you would be forced to do so anyway, because other workers were willing to do so. Your boss could just threaten to replace you with someone willing to work longer for less money. It wouldn't even matter if there actually was someone immediately on hand to replace you. The threat that there might be such a person would force you to heel. The workers most willing to be overworked and unpaid would define the terms of labor for all other workers. They would, in effect, take away their freedom.
The trouble with most libertarians is they are too focused on the individual. They fail to realize that choices that may seem perfectly rational on an individual level often create unintended consequences when millions of individuals make the same decision.
This is basically a libertarian proposal, and like most libertarian proposals, it would fail if it were ever applied to the real world. Here's why:
If you didn't want to work 14 hours a day for a low pay rate, you would be forced to do so anyway, because other workers were willing to do so.
That is obviously not true.
Any fool can see that you would not be forced to work there. That's called slavery, and slavery has been abolished.
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Your boss could just threaten to replace you with someone willing to work longer for less money. It wouldn't even matter if there actually was someone immediately on hand to replace you.
that's how the labor market already works
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The threat that there might be such a person would force you to heel. The workers most willing to be overworked and unpaid would define the terms of labor for all other workers. They would, in effect, take away their freedom.
Yet another person who doesn't know what freedom is.
"Freedom" is not a protection from something. "Freedom" is simply the ability to make your own choices.
Any fool can see that you would not be forced to work there. That's called slavery, and slavery has been abolished.
that's how the labor market already works
Yet another person who doesn't know what freedom is.
"Freedom" is not a protection from something. "Freedom" is simply the ability to make your own choices.
Good post. What these Big Government advocates don't realize is that millions and millions of salaried workers already work with no overtime laws. Last time I checked, that system was working just fine.
You need to read information from the proper source.
And you need to read what you're replying to: "If one listens to half the libertarians out there..." Stop deceiving yourself into thinking that libertarians all abide the Libertarian Party platform.
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Originally Posted by Roadking2003
The only party that supports slavery is the Democratic Party.
More self-deception. Since you're so fond of party platforms, show me exactly where the Democratic Party platform explicitly advocates slavery, without injecting any of your politically-biased nonsense into the mix, perverting what the Democratic Party platform actually says into something you can argue against. Show me the exact word, "slavery". You can't. Admit it. Admit that you're just playing silly games, trying to defend your personal preference, and trying to deny that half the libertarians out there are just plain advocating selfishness over social conscience.
And you need to read what you're replying to: "If one listens to half the libertarians out there..." Stop deceiving yourself into thinking that libertarians all abide the Libertarian Party platform.
No deception at all. Lot's of Libertarians don't support or even understand the party platform. That's no different than any other party.
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More self-deception. Since you're so fond of party platforms, show me exactly where the Democratic Party platform explicitly advocates slavery, without injecting any of your politically-biased nonsense into the mix, perverting what the Democratic Party platform actually says into something you can argue against. Show me the exact word, "slavery". You can't. Admit it. Admit that you're just playing silly games, trying to defend your personal preference, and trying to deny that half the libertarians out there are just plain advocating selfishness over social conscience.
I never said the Democrats platform explicitly advocates slavery. They are not that stupid. It's their programs that enslave people by the millions while convincing voters that they are trying to help them. Their deception is legendary.
Given that I said something about what "half the libertarians" are saying, such as in off-the-cuff and off-the-record comments within which they can be candid and forthright without reasonable expectation of being publicly embarrassed about their perspective, and you responded with noise about some propaganda that an official political party put out, yes, "deception".
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Originally Posted by Roadking2003
Lot's of Libertarians don't support or even understand the party platform.
Which is completely consistent with what I said, in a message which you posted an objection to.
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Originally Posted by Roadking2003
I never said the Democrats platform explicitly advocates slavery. They are not that stupid.
So you finally see my point about the deception you committed with regard to the Libertarian Party platform.
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Originally Posted by Roadking2003
It's their programs that enslave people by the millions while convincing voters that they are trying to help them.
So in other words, they support compassionate consideration of those less fortunate, you choose to corrupt that into "slavery" through some ridiculous self-ratifying nonsense, and then you attribute your corruption of what they support to them. And then you try to claim that it isn't deception.
I think, despite how I think it is silly to put more than one smiley in the same message, I absolutely need to post another one of these.
Let's look at this from different perspective. Suppose you work for me and I have extra work that needs to be done and can offer you an extra 8 hour day. It's within my budget to offer you regular pay but I can't offer you anymore. That leaves you with no extra work even if the arrangement was agreeable and leaves me looking for a way to get it done. That's a loss for both of us.
That means you are a poor adminstrator. If you have extra work but can't pay extra wages for the overtime, then you bid the job way too low.
Otherwise stick your 8 hour work schedule. Did you also **** up the completion time line? Under bid and promissed job completion way beyond reason?
welcome to the world of crappy owners and crappy jobs.
Because they cost too, and some people are willing to work 14 hour days no overtime. Should this be allowed or is this exploitation. If you don't like it, move on down the road.
Should you be able to agree to work under whatever terms are acceptable to you? Yes or no?
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