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Old 09-12-2013, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia Area
1,720 posts, read 1,316,146 times
Reputation: 1353

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Quote:
Originally Posted by shooting4life View Post
“No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.” – Thomas Jefferson

"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.” – George Washington

"None but an armed nation can dispense with a standing army. To keep ours armed and disciplined is therefore at all times important." --Thomas Jefferson, 1803

Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference.” -- George Washington

“The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it.“ – Thomas Jefferson

“When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.” – Thomas Jefferson
AMEN!!!!!!

 
Old 09-12-2013, 05:11 PM
 
Location: ATX-HOU
10,216 posts, read 8,117,467 times
Reputation: 2037
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphamale View Post
The people of Egypt, Syria, Libya among other nations have risen up in arms against their tyrannical governments.

We have supplied the "rebels" with weapons that help them fight their government forces.

Gun grabbers have no concept of this.

"It can't happen here", right?
You silly. You folks have no concept of context. What about the 18th century resembles the 21st century? When was the last time an armed conflict between two different countries occurred on our soil (French and Indian Wars), we were invaded (American revolution), multiple countries had colonies in the Americas, armed conflicts with the indigenous population (American Indian Wars), generally lawlessness (no coordinated law enforcement), and vigilantism. All this occurred before the 2nd Amendment was written.... It's called context. If you want to be naive and think the founders would write the same 2nd amendment if it was written today on Sept. 12, 2013 or that they would agree with your notion of gun rights then by all means.

LASTLY, to your actual post. The irony is you are supporting a cycle of violence as those countries have had multiple revolutions and overthrown their own govts many times..... As history has taught us in this part of the world, we are supplying the weapons for rebels who will overthrow their govt to only use those guns against the next line of rebels.
 
Old 09-12-2013, 05:12 PM
 
Location: ATX-HOU
10,216 posts, read 8,117,467 times
Reputation: 2037
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooting4life View Post
“No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.” – Thomas Jefferson

"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.” – George Washington

"None but an armed nation can dispense with a standing army. To keep ours armed and disciplined is therefore at all times important." --Thomas Jefferson, 1803

“Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference.” -- George Washington

“The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it.“ – Thomas Jefferson

“When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.” – Thomas Jefferson
....and quoting a bunch of dead guys helps you how? Respectable dead guys, but nevertheless dead. Seems you are holding on to the past.
 
Old 09-12-2013, 05:23 PM
 
Location: Behind enemy lines
709 posts, read 656,632 times
Reputation: 717
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavaturaccioli View Post
Well, the odds were more even in the 18th century you must admit. The other thing to consider is this: Yes, the government could obliterate whole city blocks (Hell, whole cities for that matter) but the world would stand in utter shock and disbelief were that to happen. A likelier scenario would be the government declaring martial law in certain areas deemed to be in 'rebellion' and troops would be sent in with relatively minor arms. Mind you, this is utter fantasy to me; I just don't see it happening.
If those in Washington don't have the will to indiscriminately bomb their own cities to rubble, they'll lose. As has been proven numerous times now, extreme technological superiority doesn't beat back an insurgency by itself.
 
Old 09-12-2013, 05:37 PM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
9,828 posts, read 9,416,286 times
Reputation: 6288
Always funny to read delusional right-wing fantasies.

"Overthrow the government with yer pistol!"

Keep dreaming.
 
Old 09-12-2013, 05:42 PM
 
Location: Behind enemy lines
709 posts, read 656,632 times
Reputation: 717
Quote:
Originally Posted by dv1033 View Post
If you want to be naive and think the founders would write the same 2nd amendment if it was written today on Sept. 12, 2013 or that they would agree with your notion of gun rights then by all means.
If you've read even a tiny fraction of what the founding fathers wrote, and still you come to this conclusion, you have the worst reading comprehension I've ever seen.
 
Old 09-12-2013, 05:54 PM
 
3,040 posts, read 2,578,753 times
Reputation: 665
Quote:
Originally Posted by dv1033 View Post
....and quoting a bunch of dead guys helps you how? Respectable dead guys, but nevertheless dead. Seems you are holding on to the past.
Wow!

Ever heard of the founding fathers??
 
Old 09-12-2013, 06:03 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
12,287 posts, read 9,820,687 times
Reputation: 6509
Quote:
Originally Posted by dv1033 View Post
....and quoting a bunch of dead guys helps you how? Respectable dead guys, but nevertheless dead. Seems you are holding on to the past.
I could start quoting myself if that makes you happy. Maybe a few mother jones articles or perhaps something from salon, if you taken those sources more seriously than those who fought for and founded this nation.

I cannot believe someone could even hold this opinion.

You should read this before posting

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.
He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.
He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.
He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences
For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:
For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.
In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.
Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our Brittish brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.
We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.
 
Old 09-12-2013, 06:04 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
12,287 posts, read 9,820,687 times
Reputation: 6509
Quote:
Originally Posted by dv1033 View Post
You silly. You folks have no concept of context. What about the 18th century resembles the 21st century? When was the last time an armed conflict between two different countries occurred on our soil (French and Indian Wars), we were invaded (American revolution), multiple countries had colonies in the Americas, armed conflicts with the indigenous population (American Indian Wars), generally lawlessness (no coordinated law enforcement), and vigilantism. All this occurred before the 2nd Amendment was written.... It's called context. If you want to be naive and think the founders would write the same 2nd amendment if it was written today on Sept. 12, 2013 or that they would agree with your notion of gun rights then by all means.

LASTLY, to your actual post. The irony is you are supporting a cycle of violence as those countries have had multiple revolutions and overthrown their own govts many times..... As history has taught us in this part of the world, we are supplying the weapons for rebels who will overthrow their govt to only use those guns against the next line of rebels.
We should just ban the Internet since that 18th century document obviously does not apply, stop living in the past.
 
Old 09-12-2013, 06:22 PM
 
Location: Chesapeake Bay
6,046 posts, read 4,816,860 times
Reputation: 3544
Quote:
Originally Posted by rso092 View Post
If those in Washington don't have the will to indiscriminately bomb their own cities to rubble, they'll lose. As has been proven numerous times now, extreme technological superiority doesn't beat back an insurgency by itself.
Not going to be an insurgency. A few blowhards post their hatred. The vast majority of Americans don't support such.
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