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Marx said that Capitalists will make the rope that Communism will hang them with...
Is this prophesy coming true with the economic situation with the Peoples Republic of China?
The western business-people (especially the large companies) have been tripping over each other to take advantage of the low wages there. Effectively, the western capitalists helped in building their industries, and creating the current situation. (Making the rope).
Now the PRC government is controlling all investment and trade activities to their advantage. And, while the west (USA and Europe) are getting more frustrated with the "one-way" regulations, the PRC is simply doing what it wants to do, as the westerners are now "hooked" into them.
It's frightening to think how much we depend on them for products. If there was some political crisis between us, and an interruption in trade, we would be without many of our day-to-day products (computers, computer parts, shoes, and so much more)...It's a dangerous situation.
Is it dangerous enough to destroy us?...Or at least destroy our economy?
If they suddenly cut-off trade, do we have the ability (machinery equipment to produce certain products) to keep functioning?... At least at a minimal capacity to function?
Computers and trinkets be damned. A trade cut off from China and we would be out of steel! You know, the metal we make weapons out of.
We have not only given them the rope, we have given them the gallows as well. To top it all off we have also surrendered our Constitution and civil liberties to the same greed heads that sold our country to the Chinese Communists. Real smart!
For some reason: China does not dare 'rock the boat' too much--------in the long run; they would lose big time.
As I have commented on in the past: out of China's 1+ Billion people; maybe 100 million of them are relatively affluent-------can someone say another 'Cultural Revolution'?
Side note: apparently the lead in the toys debacle is starting to cause China some $$$ pain------more and more Americans are buying US/Euro sourced playthings for their kids as of late.
For some reason: China does not dare 'rock the boat' too much--------in the long run; they would lose big time.
What worries me is that China does rock the boat, but everyone turns a blind eye to it. The government is brutal -- probably the worst abuser of human rights on the planet today. People are tortured and imprisoned for expressing their religious and political views. Labor rights are nonexistent. The environment is in sad shape. The government supports (often with money and weapons) corrupt dictatorships around the world, from Sudan to Burma. But because we're so friggin' economically dependent on China -- since we've pretty much sold out our entire manual-labor force to them -- nobody pushes them to do anything to change. Everyone keeps saying, "Oh, they'll see the benefits of the free market, and capitalism will win out." But it doesn't make any sense. We're giving China everything it could want and making no demands for change. To think the Communists are just going to close up shop is a pipe dream, perpetuated by politicians and corporate leaders.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear
As I have commented on in the past: out of China's 1+ Billion people; maybe 100 million of them are relatively affluent-------can someone say another 'Cultural Revolution'?
Yep. The supposed free-market reforms are helping a very, very small number of Chinese. Meanwhile, the vast majority of Chinese remain severely impoverished rural peasants. The entire situation is untenable in the long run.
Great (and sobering) reading on this subject -- James Mann's "The China Fantasy: How Our Leaders Explain Away Chinese Repression."
China is no longer a Communist country. It might still have a lot of Marxist imagery and rhetoric, but its becoming more Capitalist all the time.
And sorry, I will take the Capitalist China any day over the Maoist nightmare that created the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution.
Yes, China has inscribed the property right in his Constitution 2 years ago. This was historical.
But Capitalism/Communism in all countries will now be fusionning into what they call "Communitarism", that is the future program of the Rockefellers. What counts is Corporatism and Central Banking in both systems for the super rich: that's how they control the masses.
Yes, China has inscribed the property right in his Constitution 2 years ago. This was historical.
But Capitalism/Communism in all countries will now be fusionning into what they call "Communitarism", that is the future program of the Rockefellers. What counts is Corporatism and Central Banking in both systems for the super rich: that's how they control the masses.
Location: Sitting on a bar stool. Guinness in hand.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YoAdrian
What worries me is that China does rock the boat, but everyone turns a blind eye to it. The government is brutal -- probably the worst abuser of human rights on the planet today. People are tortured and imprisoned for expressing their religious and political views. Labor rights are nonexistent. The environment is in sad shape. The government supports (often with money and weapons) corrupt dictatorships around the world, from Sudan to Burma. But because we're so friggin' economically dependent on China -- since we've pretty much sold out our entire manual-labor force to them -- nobody pushes them to do anything to change. Everyone keeps saying, "Oh, they'll see the benefits of the free market, and capitalism will win out." But it doesn't make any sense. We're giving China everything it could want and making no demands for change. To think the Communists are just going to close up shop is a pipe dream, perpetuated by politicians and corporate leaders.
Yep. The supposed free-market reforms are helping a very, very small number of Chinese. Meanwhile, the vast majority of Chinese remain severely impoverished rural peasants. The entire situation is untenable in the long run.
Great (and sobering) reading on this subject -- James Mann's "The China Fantasy: How Our Leaders Explain Away Chinese Repression."
Well I'll put it like this. China is still a brutal dictatorship for now. But I think in the long run China in the next 20 or 30 years china will soften a little and turn over from a serve form of communism to more of a corporate guided socialism. China is doing so well economically right now some of the benefit will trickle down to the bottom rung. I mean look people over there themselves are starting to buy more and more consumer goods.
Chinese Consumer Report (http://retailindustry.about.com/b/2004/10/26/chinese-consumer-report.htm - broken link)
Basically they are becoming a little more westernized. And I think with that westernization the younger generations in china will be influenced to move a little toward some western ideas. Is it going to be over night? No, but give it time. Don't rush it. Look what happen to Russia when they tried to rush the change from communism to western style economics and government. It basically collapsed and now you have a the same old same old with the exception 1. people can actually leave the country. 2. giant state own oil companies can make western profits on there product. 3. false front of democracy. But other than that Russia is the same old dictatorship is always been. Economy of Russia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia E-Notes: Russia under Putin: Toward Democracy or Dictatorship? - FPRI
BTW. America itself has had plenty of human rights issues in the past and still has some today. Just look at the number of our own people that are in jail right now. I believe that says alot.
China is no longer a Communist country. It might still have a lot of Marxist imagery and rhetoric, but its becoming more Capitalist all the time.
And sorry, I will take the Capitalist China any day over the Maoist nightmare that created the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution.
I'd take capitalist China, too, but it's not happening. Those property rights are nominal rights given mostly to placate the peasants, who still don't have control over their own land. It's the same with the so-called free elections. If a candidate isn't party-approved, he won't make it onto the ballot. And there's still no choice for anything but Communist on any ballot beyond the local level.
If you think China isn't Communist anymore, then why is it that "religious freedom" consists of teaching Party-approved religious beliefs, which usually undermine or contradict traditional teachings? In fact, this is why Falun Gong members are routinely gathered up, jailed, and tortured -- the Party sees the movement growing and views it as a threat, because it doesn't control the movement's teachings.
Tell imprisoned democracy protestors there's no Communism in China. Tell anyone who's in prison for flying a Tibetan flag or possessing a picture of the Dalai Lama. For that matter, tell it to the Dalai Lama, who still can't go home to the nation that China invaded and claimed for its own more than half a century ago.
Sorry, but Communism is alive and well. Our leaders and the media just don't want you to see it. They keep beating the drum about how China is becoming capitalist. But by and large, it's simply not happening. And by giving them all our jobs, we're letting them have their cake and eat it, too -- they get the financial benefit of capitalism but don't have to lower their communist iron fist at all.
I'd take capitalist China, too, but it's not happening. Those property rights are nominal rights given mostly to placate the peasants, who still don't have control over their own land. It's the same with the so-called free elections. If a candidate isn't party-approved, he won't make it onto the ballot. And there's still no choice for anything but Communist on any ballot beyond the local level.
If you think China isn't Communist anymore, then why is it that "religious freedom" consists of teaching Party-approved religious beliefs, which usually undermine or contradict traditional teachings? In fact, this is why Falun Gong members are routinely gathered up, jailed, and tortured -- the Party sees the movement growing and views it as a threat, because it doesn't control the movement's teachings.
Tell imprisoned democracy protestors there's no Communism in China. Tell anyone who's in prison for flying a Tibetan flag or possessing a picture of the Dalai Lama. For that matter, tell it to the Dalai Lama, who still can't go home to the nation that China invaded and claimed for its own more than half a century ago.
Sorry, but Communism is alive and well. Our leaders and the media just don't want you to see it. They keep beating the drum about how China is becoming capitalist. But by and large, it's simply not happening. And by giving them all our jobs, we're letting them have their cake and eat it, too -- they get the financial benefit of capitalism but don't have to lower their communist iron fist at all.
I never said China was democratic.
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