Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Just another partisan argument blaming one entity for the failures of both parties. Answer this, if Democrats in the Senate, and the President were so convinced that the government needs to be funded, then why have the Democrats in the Senate failed to pass an actual budget in over four years? They have acted irresponsibly by regularly passing continuing resolutions in lieu of an actual budget. They did this even before the Republicans took over the House in 2010. Why has the President allowed this mismanagement to continue, it is referred to as the President's Budget in official government terms, so why has he allowed his own party to routinely fail to do what they are required to do?
Not making any excuses for the House Republicans. I am honestly tired of both parties and think that it would be extremely good for the country if any incumbent up for reelection in the upcoming midterms is shown the door by their respective constituency.
The President's budget is not what the House passed. The House has sent over to the Senate budgets that are represent extremist views. The last budget, earlier this year, incorporated Ryan's views, which lower taxes on the rich even more and turn Medicare into a voucher program, while increasing the deficit. I see no reason for the Democrats to pass bad budgets just to say, 'we passed a budget.'
But your view that both parties are culpable is a cop-out. It's like if the Republicans passed a resolution declaring the Earth flat, and the Democrats voted against it. You would argue that it was merely a disagreement about the shape of the planet, while one side is representing sensibility and the other side is acting crazy.
Americans, by a wide margin, do not feel the Country should be held hostage to some Congressional political battle. That has been the case over the last few years, the Obama Admin and Dems in Congress along with most Americans, want that method of "legislating", stopped.
First, conservative is an ideology, not a political party. Second, I am not changing the subject. How many times has Harry Reid (D) NV gone on the 24/7 news channels and said "X" legislation from the House is DOA in the Senate? The Democrats are not innocent or free from fault in this situation. Yes, Republicans, or a small group of them, are trying to defund the ACA. Yes, it is stupid and pointless. However, we would not be in this mess if the Democrats in the Senate actually passed a budget for once in going on five years now. That is the point. If we weren't playing shell games with this never ending series of Continuing Resolutions (CRs), we would not be in the current mess. The budget for FY14 would have been submitted last October, and signed by the President and published by February of 2013. That is how an actual government budget works.
If legislation is dead in any body on its way to law is the way legislation is made into law.<<< [orange]
Defunded a program passed by law in the normal legislative process...<<< [apple]
comparring apples and oranges reveals your reason of confusion
First, conservative is an ideology, not a political party. Second, I am not changing the subject. How many times has Harry Reid (D) NV gone on the 24/7 news channels and said "X" legislation from the House is DOA in the Senate? The Democrats are not innocent or free from fault in this situation. Yes, Republicans, or a small group of them, are trying to defund the ACA. Yes, it is stupid and pointless. However, we would not be in this mess if the Democrats in the Senate actually passed a budget for once in going on five years now. That is the point. If we weren't playing shell games with this never ending series of Continuing Resolutions (CRs), we would not be in the current mess. The budget for FY14 would have been submitted last October, and signed by the President and published by February of 2013. That is how an actual government budget works.
It is dead on arrival because the conservative party wants to defund the new health care law. If the conservative party in the house sent a bill that funded the government ALL the Democrats in both chambers of Congress would vote for the bill.
Still changing the subject I see. SMH.
Also, the conservatives in the Senate threaten to filibuster the Democratic budget bill. The last 2 years I think. So even there, it is not both sides, it is the conservatives threatening to filibuster the Senate Democrats Budget bill.
The President's budget is not what the House passed. The House has sent over to the Senate budgets that are represent extremist views. The last budget, earlier this year, incorporated Ryan's views, which lower taxes on the rich even more and turn Medicare into a voucher program, while increasing the deficit. I see no reason for the Democrats to pass bad budgets just to say, 'we passed a budget.'
But your view that both parties are culpable is a cop-out. It's like if the Republicans passed a resolution declaring the Earth flat, and the Democrats voted against it. You would argue that it was merely a disagreement about the shape of the planet, while one side is representing sensibility and the other side is acting crazy.
First, you apparently have no idea how the Federal budget process works. Second, where have I offered any degree of support for the actions of the Republicans. To the contrary, I hold them equally responsible for the current mess, as previously stated. The difference is, I am willing to blame both parties, where you seem willing to only criticize one, though the party you are trying to defend shares an equal degree of culpability. The Democrats failed to pass a budget even when they had control of the House, the Senate, and the Oval Office. Your excuse for their failure to pass a budget, even when controlling both houses of Congress and the White House is a cop out.
If ever there was a sign that government is irreparably broken and no longer serving the needs of the people, this is it. Both sides willing to crush the entire country in order to make a point based only on blind partisanship.
There are no Republicans vs. Democrats "both sides" argument here. There is only government on one side and the people on the other. Guess which side will lose.
It's not about Partisanship according to an article by Politico today - Politico is pretty Left leaning, but they say this is about the 2014 elections. Reid is convinced that if he can force the shutdown that Republicans will get the blame and he can hold on to the Senate. He is also the person who is keeping Obama from meeting with the Leadership from both House & Senate to try and find a solution. Interesting that the President of the United States is now taking orders from Harry Reid and is willing to do this just for the 2014 elections. Apparently Reid and the top Democrats were "furious" with Obama over the past "crisis situations" and the way he handled them - so he is going to refuse to even talk to Republicans.
Reid said in an interview Friday there was little point for Obama to engage directly in the fiscal fights. “Not on the debt ceiling and not on the CR,” he told POLITICO. “Maybe on something else — but not these two. We have to fund the government and pay our bills.”
Reid’s strategy boils down to a few factors: If Democrats give even a few small concessions on a short-term stopgap funding measure, Republicans will demand even bigger concessions to avoid a debt default in mid-October. Since Republicans have been engulfed in an intraparty war over how far to take a shutdown threat, Reid and his top lieutenants are convinced that the political backlash from a shutdown would be devastating to the GOP, potentially costing them their majority in the House.
It's not an un-reasonable plan for the Dems & Obama to force a shutdown to aid them in the 2014 elections - they will have the Media to help them point the finger of blame + all the bloggers that just repeat the same thing over-and over-and over again .... like we see in this thread.
On the other hand - they are pretty arrogant about their "Strategy" - Obama refuses to even talk to Boehner or McConnell, calls them "extremists" and heads out to play Golf. Reid shuts down the Senate on Saturday and Sunday and won't even open it up until 2:00 Monday afternoon. They will strip the House bill and send it back - which I actually think is a good idea. I DON'T want a delay and I DO want the Democrats to vote against the companies and employees in their own States that work in the Medical Device industries ..... this actually covers people who make tongue depressors & rubber gloves. It's stupid. What will Harry Reid do next? Maybe he will send the Senate home at 5:00 PM and tell them this is now a done deal. Reid & Schumer had 8 phone conversations on Sunday, plenty of time to talk to each other about their "Strategy" for 2014 Election, but no time at all to go to work and get some sort of agreement on a 45 day Bill.
The House will send back yet another Bill for the Senate to vote on to stop this Shutdown that the Democrats are praying for - The last Bill they send will be the one the Republicans REALLY want and it's going to be a tough vote for the Senate. I'm guessing no delay, no defund, and no change to the ACA at all. The key to all this is timing .... for both sides.
Most of the country won't notice the shutdown at all, but all those Federal employees (800,000) that lose their paychecks will sure notice. It's up to them to let their Senators know that this "2014 election Strategy" is hurting real people. We are talking about a 45 day Bill, not anything of any great length or even permanence. 45 Days. We are in for a very bumpy fall - the Democrats plan on pulling this "Shutdown Crisis and Debt Crisis ..... over&over&over&over. It's ALL about the 2014 elections and they don't mind actually telling their reporter friends that is their "Strategy".
The 2 things that is clear to everyone is that these clowns in the bubble of Washington, D.C. don't care about the American people AND that Obama is no leader at all. He is out playing golf, making speeches and letting Harry Reid take control.
It's not about Partisanship according to an article by Politico today - Politico is pretty Left leaning, but they say this is about the 2014 elections. Reid is convinced that if he can force the shutdown that Republicans will get the blame and he can hold on to the Senate. He is also the person who is keeping Obama from meeting with the Leadership from both House & Senate to try and find a solution. Interesting that the President of the United States is now taking orders from Harry Reid and is willing to do this just for the 2014 elections. Apparently Reid and the top Democrats were "furious" with Obama over the past "crisis situations" and the way he handled them - so he is going to refuse to even talk to Republicans.
It's not an un-reasonable plan for the Dems & Obama to force a shutdown to aid them in the 2014 elections - they will have the Media to help them point the finger of blame + all the bloggers that just repeat the same thing over-and over-and over again .... like we see in this thread.
On the other hand - they are pretty arrogant about their "Strategy" - Obama refuses to even talk to Boehner or McConnell, calls them "extremists" and heads out to play Golf. Reid shuts down the Senate on Saturday and Sunday and won't even open it up until 2:00 Monday afternoon. They will strip the House bill and send it back - which I actually think is a good idea. I DON'T want a delay and I DO want the Democrats to vote against the companies and employees in their own States that work in the Medical Device industries ..... this actually covers people who make tongue depressors & rubber gloves. It's stupid. What will Harry Reid do next? Maybe he will send the Senate home at 5:00 PM and tell them this is now a done deal. Reid & Schumer had 8 phone conversations on Sunday, plenty of time to talk to each other about their "Strategy" for 2014 Election, but no time at all to go to work and get some sort of agreement on a 45 day Bill.
The House will send back yet another Bill for the Senate to vote on to stop this Shutdown that the Democrats are praying for - The last Bill they send will be the one the Republicans REALLY want and it's going to be a tough vote for the Senate. I'm guessing no delay, no defund, and no change to the ACA at all. The key to all this is timing .... for both sides.
Most of the country won't notice the shutdown at all, but all those Federal employees (800,000) that lose their paychecks will sure notice. It's up to them to let their Senators know that this "2014 election Strategy" is hurting real people. We are talking about a 45 day Bill, not anything of any great length or even permanence. 45 Days. We are in for a very bumpy fall - the Democrats plan on pulling this "Shutdown Crisis and Debt Crisis ..... over&over&over&over. It's ALL about the 2014 elections and they don't mind actually telling their reporter friends that is their "Strategy".
The 2 things that is clear to everyone is that these clowns in the bubble of Washington, D.C. don't care about the American people AND that Obama is no leader at all. He is out playing golf, making speeches and letting Harry Reid take control.
I honestly don't blame Obama for not compromising. You cannot set the precedent of allowing politicians to hold the economy hostage because they cannot get what they want through the normal process. Tying the raising of debt ceiling to the dismantling of legislation is unprecedented.
If the hard-line Republicans honestly thought that Obamacare is going to be the unmitigated disaster they are predicting then they should just leave it along so they can rack-up "I told you so" victories in 2014 and 2016. They have painted themselves in a corner with their constituents and there is a real fear that people are going to really like the exchanges once their up and running.
Oh, and Politico was founded by and still run by former Reagan staffers. Hardly what I'd consider left-leaning.
If legislation is dead in any body on its way to law is the way legislation is made into law.<<< [orange]
Defunded a program passed by law in the normal legislative process...<<< [apple]
comparring apples and oranges reveals your reason of confusion
Speaking of confusion ....... you and other Obama followers are very confused about the Bill the Senate will finally show up to vote on today.
"Defund" is not part of that bill. It can't possibly be any kind of "crisis" since Harry Reid didn't think any of it was important enough to open the Senate for over the weekend. Obama doesn't think it's a "crisis" on any sort since he has refused to even speak with Republicans about it. Negotiation with Syria, Russia and Iran = Good in Obama's mind. Negotiating with Americans = Bad in Obama's mind. That's Scary.
If Obama and Reid are able to pull off this "Strategy for the 2014 elections" by shutting down the Government -- it's going to send a very powerful message to investors. It will tell investors that they are completely 'round the bend and willing to send this entire Nation off a cliff to implement their 2014 Election Strategy. The Debt Ceiling is the important battle, not a 45 day finance bill.
The Stock Market and World Markets will plunge if they think Obama is willing to do this for his own political gain. Count on it.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
