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Old 11-20-2007, 05:55 PM
 
2,257 posts, read 3,516,221 times
Reputation: 470

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1. you no nothing about what movies ive seen

2.Ive been researching the subject for over 30 years

3.You have proven nothing

4.You have no clue about how I form opinions





Quote:
Originally Posted by Poptech View Post
Lets see so far:

1. You have never seen Al Gore's Movie: 'An Inconvenient Lie'.
2. You have no time to research any of this.
3. You think it is crazy to ignore the possibility man-made pollution could effect climate. (yet I proved it has nothing to do with pollution).
4. You made your opinion up on something current - 20 years ago.

Yet you seem fine stating all sorts of positions on the issue which apparently involves regurgitating hysterical positions from the media and environmentalist websites. Sorry if I don't buy it.

I am not PO'ed, I am positive Al Gore is absolutely NOT qualified to be an authority on Global Warming in any way:

Al Gore, B.A. Government (no higher degree achieved, no science degree)

The Education of Al Gore (The Washington Times)

"Mr. Gore's high school performance on the college board achievement tests in physics (488 out of 800 "terrible," St. Albans retired teacher and assistant headmaster John Davis told The Post) and chemistry (519 out of 800 "He didn't do too well in chemistry," Mr. Davis observed) suggests that Mr. Gore would have trouble with science for the rest of his life. At Harvard and Vanderbilt, Mr. Gore continued bumbling along.

As a Harvard sophomore, scholar Al "earned" a D in Natural Sciences 6 in a course presciently named "Man's Place in Nature." That was the year he evidently spent more time smoking cannabis than studying its place among other plants within the ecosystem. His senior year, Mr. Gore received a C+ in Natural Sciences 118.

At Vanderbilt divinity school, Mr. Gore took a course in theology and natural science. The assigned readings included the apocalyptic, and widely discredited "Limits to Growth," which formed much of the foundation for "Earth in the Balance." It is said that Mr. Gore failed to hand in his book report on time. Thus, his incomplete grade turned into an F, one of five Fs Mr. Gore received at divinity school, which may well be a worldwide record.
"
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Old 11-20-2007, 06:19 PM
 
6,760 posts, read 10,418,661 times
Reputation: 2996
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishmonger View Post
See... I don't know. To me it seems like when the stations report on the "it's happening" people it's always activists, Al Gore, politicians, etc. And when they bring in the skeptical cause it's always the two-or-three well-publicized "scientists," or this or that famous meteorologist who isn't really an authority on climate but that everyone has watched predict the local weather since they were kids, so they think, "this guy really knows what he's talking about," as opposed to presenting the "skeptic" side with Neil Boortz or Senator Inhofe or Ted Nugent. Maybe it's just me. The minority of skeptical scientists seem to be a lot more out looking to get attention for their cause than the scientists who work more within the "consensus." The internet is flooded with their blogs, "research surveys" done for right-wing think tanks, etc.
CNN and NBC's Today show have both within the last few weeks run week long specials where they have sent there people to several continents to meet with scientist and report on the effects of global warming and how its so horrible. I have never seen a week long special questioning global warming. The Science channel ran a 2 hour special on the 5 most likely ways that humans will become extinct, and they extensively interviewed scientists from all types of backgrounds. Number 1 on their list was global warming. Yep, thats right. Even more likely than an ice age, asteroid, comet, nuclear war, or solar blast according to them. The Weather Channel ran a week long series on the 100 biggest weather events of all of history. The winner? Why global warming of course, as Dr. Heidi Cullen (what is she a doctor of anyway?) warned of the end of the human race.

It seems to me that the only people showing the skeptic side are the editorial style shows and radio. Mainstream news desks do not give it hardly any exposure.
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Old 11-20-2007, 06:26 PM
 
114 posts, read 124,109 times
Reputation: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryan61 View Post
1. you no nothing about what movies ive seen

2.Ive been researching the subject for over 30 years

3.You have proven nothing

4.You have no clue about how I form opinions
Ah yes I believe I confused some of bily's points with yours but you did make this statement:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bryan61 View Post
My opinions on this subject were formed over 20 years ago and I have yet to discuss them here.
It is nice how you form opinions 20 years ago and we are supposed to magically figure out what they are. I looked back and you have said a whole lot a nothing statements.

I have proven many things:

1. There is NO 'Consensus' on "Man-Made" Global Warming


2. Al Gore is a Hypocrite:

Hypocrite:

Hannity's America - Al Gore and Global Warming (Video) (10min)

Hannity's America - Al Gore's Gulfstream (Video) (7min)
Al Gore, Environmentalist and Zinc Miner (The Wall Street Journal)
Al Gore's Inconvenient Toxic Waste Dump (NewsMax)
Al Gore, polluter? (WorldNetDaily)
Al Gore Refuses to Take Personal Energy Ethics Pledge (US Senate Environment & Public Works Committee)
Bush's Ranch House 'Far More Eco-Friendly' Than Gore's (broken link) (CNSNews)
- George W. Bush's eco-friendly ranch compared to Al Gore's energy-expending mansion = True (Snopes)
Eco-warrior Al Gore serves up endangered fish at daughter's party (Daily Mail, UK)
Environmentalist Gore allowed zinc mine (USA Today)
Gore home's energy use: 20 times average (WorldNetDaily)
- Al Gore's residence uses considerably more energy than the average American home = True (Snopes)
Gore isn't quite as green as he's led the world to believe (USA Today)
Meet the real Al Gore (WorldNetDaily)
Occidental Petroleum Corporation Connections (The Wall Street Journal)
Whose Ox Is Gored? (The Wall Street Journal)

Gore's 'carbon offsets' paid to firm he owns (WorldNetDaily)
The Money and Connections Behind Al Gore’s Carbon Crusade (Human Events)


3. Al Gore is not qualified to be an authority on Global Warming:

Al Gore only has a B.A. in Government (no higher degree achieved, no science degrees)
The Education of Al Gore (The Washington Times)

"Mr. Gore's high school performance on the college board achievement tests in physics (488 out of 800 "terrible," St. Albans retired teacher and assistant headmaster John Davis told The Post) and chemistry (519 out of 800 "He didn't do too well in chemistry," Mr. Davis observed) suggests that Mr. Gore would have trouble with science for the rest of his life. At Harvard and Vanderbilt, Mr. Gore continued bumbling along.

As a Harvard sophomore, scholar Al "earned" a D in Natural Sciences 6 in a course presciently named "Man's Place in Nature." That was the year he evidently spent more time smoking cannabis than studying its place among other plants within the ecosystem. His senior year, Mr. Gore received a C+ in Natural Sciences 118.

At Vanderbilt divinity school, Mr. Gore took a course in theology and natural science. The assigned readings included the apocalyptic, and widely discredited "Limits to Growth," which formed much of the foundation for "Earth in the Balance." It is said that Mr. Gore failed to hand in his book report on time. Thus, his incomplete grade turned into an F, one of five Fs Mr. Gore received at divinity school, which may well be a worldwide record."


4. An Inconvenient Truth is Propaganda:

Al Gore's climate change film 'is propaganda' (The Daily Telegraph, UK)
UK Court finds 9 Inaccuracies in Al Gore's An Inconvenient Truth (The New Party, UK)
- Gore’s Nine Lies (FrontPage Magazine)
- Al Gore told there are nine inconvenient truths in his film (The Times, UK)
- British Schools Ordered to Offer 'Balance' When Showing Al Gore's Global Warming Film (FOXNews)
35 Inconvenient Truths (Science and Public Policy Institute)
25 Inconvenient Truths for Al Gore (The National Review Online)
23 Scientific Errors (Science and Public Policy Institute)
16 Errors in Al Gore’s An Inconvenient Truth (http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/monckton_papers/errors_in_al_gore_s_an_inconvenient_truth.html - broken link) (Science and Public Policy Institute)


5. CO2 is NOT Pollution:

"CO2 for different people has different attractions. After all, what is it? - it’s not a pollutant, it’s a product of every living creature’s breathing, it’s the product of all plant respiration, it is essential for plant life and photosynthesis, it’s a product of all industrial burning, it’s a product of driving – I mean, if you ever wanted a leverage point to control everything from exhalation to driving, this would be a dream. So it has a kind of fundamental attractiveness to bureaucratic mentality."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT

The Kyoto Protocol is a treaty to regulate 'Greenhouse Gases' only:
- Carbon dioxide (CO2)
- Methane (CH4)
- Nitrous oxide (N2O) (Laughing Gas, Nitrous, NOS)
- Hydrofluorocarbons (HFCs)
- Perfluorocarbons (PFCs)
- Sulphur hexafluoride (SF6)

Car Exhaust consists of:
Harmless:
- Carbon dioxide (CO2)
- Nitrogen (N2)
- Water vapor (H2O)
Some Pollutants:
- Carbon monoxide (CO) *
- Hydrocarbons or Volatile Organic Compounds (VOCs) *
- Nitric oxide (NO) *
- Nitrogen dioxide (NO2) *
- Particulate matter (PM-10) *
- Sulfur dioxide (SO2) *

* Your car's catalytic converter removes about 95% of these pollutants.

Smog consists of:
- Ozone (O3) * (formed from the photochemical reaction of Nitrogen dioxide (NO2) + Hydrocarbons)
- Particulate matter (PM-10) *
- Sulfur dioxide (SO2) *

* Air Pollution is already regulated in the: 1970 Clean Air Act (Amended: 1977, 1990)
* Water Pollution is already regulated in the Federal Water Pollution Control Act (Amended: Clean Water Act of 1977 (broken link), Water Quality Act of 1987)
* The Clear Skies Act of 2003 Failed to Pass the Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works (Bloomberg)


6. There are plenty of Peer-Reviewed Papers Skeptical of Man-Made Global Warming. Here are just a few:

Environmental Effects of Increased Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide (http://www.oism.org/pproject/review.pdf - broken link)
(Energy & Environment, Volume 10, Number 5, pp. 439-468, 1 September 1999)
- Arthur B. Robinson, Noah E. Robinson, Willie Soon


Global warming
(Progress in Physical Geography, 27, 448-455, 2003)
- W. Soon, S. L. Baliunas


Human Contribution to Climate Change Remains Questionable (http://www.sepp.org/research/scirsrch/EOS1999.html - broken link)
(EOS, Transactions, American Geophysical Society, Vol 80, page 183-187, April 20, 1999)
- S. Fred Singer


Industrial CO2 emissions as a proxy for anthropogenic influence on lower tropospheric temperature trends
(Geophysical Research Letters, Vol. 31, L05204, 2004)
- A. T. J. de Laat, A. N. Maurellis


Implications of the Secondary Role of Carbon Dioxide and Methane Forcing in Climate Change: Past, Present, and Future (http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/bell/pgeo/2007/00000028/00000002/art00001 - broken link)
(Physical Geography, Volume 28, Number 2, pp. 97-125(29), March 2007)
- Soon, Willie


Methodology and Results of Calculating Central California Surface Temperature Trends: Evidence of Human-Induced Climate Change?
(Journal of Climate, Volume: 19 Issue: 4, February 2006)
- Christy, J.R., W.B. Norris, K. Redmond, K. Gallo


Modeling climatic effects of anthropogenic carbon dioxide emissions: unknowns and uncertainties
(Climate Research, Vol. 18: 259–275, 2001)
- Willie Soon, Sallie Baliunas, Sherwood B. Idso, Kirill Ya. Kondratyev, Eric S. Posmentier


Modeling climatic effects of anthropogenic carbon dioxide emissions: unknowns and uncertainties. Reply to Risbey (2002)
(Climate Research, Vol. 22: 187–188, 2002)
- Willie Soon, Sallie Baliunas, Sherwood B. Idso, Kirill Ya. Kondratyev, Eric S. Posmentier


Modeling climatic effects of anthropogenic carbon dioxide emissions: unknowns and uncertainties. Reply to Karoly et al.
(Climate Research, Vol. 24: 93–94, 2003)
- Willie Soon, Sallie Baliunas, Sherwood B. Idso, Kirill Ya. Kondratyev, Eric S. Posmentier


On global forces of nature driving the Earth's climate. Are humans involved?
(Environmental Geology, Volume 50, Number 6, August, 2006)
- L. F. Khilyuk and G. V. Chilingar


Quantitative implications of the secondary role of carbon dioxide climate forcing in the past glacial-interglacial cycles for the likely future climatic impacts of anthropogenic greenhouse-gas forcings
(arXiv:0707.1276, 07/2007)
- Soon, Willie


The continuing search for an anthropogenic climate change signal: Limitations of correlation-based approaches
(Geophysical Research Letters, Vol. 24, NO. 18, PAGES 2319–2322, 1997)
- David R. Legates, Robert E. Davis



7. Kyoto is useless:

APEC unlikely to accept binding gas targets in climate change fight (Herald Tribune)
Australia rejects Kyoto pact (BBC)
Canada joins anti-Kyoto bloc (National Post, Canada)
- Canada alarmed over Kyoto costs (BBC)
- Canada report defends saying no to Kyoto target (Reuters)
China rejects binding targets on greenhouse emissions (Forbes)
- China surpasses United States in emissions (United Press International)
- 750,000 a year killed by Chinese pollution (Financial Times, UK)
Greece fails on Kyoto targets (Kathimerini, Greece)
India rejects greenhouse gas limits (Herald Sun, Australia)
Italy breaks EU ranks on Kyoto (The Parliament)
Japan emissions to rise, reaching Kyoto goals hard (Reuters)
- Japan's Greenhouse Gas Emissions Rise 6.4% From 1990 Levels (Bloomberg)
New Zealand - NZ to bring in carbon trading, but still lag Kyoto (Reuters)
Spain Lags Behind in Kyoto Protocol Compliance (Tierramerica)
Turkey rejects Kyoto (Today's Zaman, Turkey)
UK Revealed: cover-up plan on energy target (The Guardian. UK)
- UK public rejects Kyoto Protocol (http://www.policynetwork.net/main/press_release.php?pr_id=15 - broken link) (International Policy Network)
US Senate Rejects Kyoto 95-0 (Byrd-Hagel Resolution, 1997)
- George Bush rejects mandatory limits on emissions (The Times, UK)
- U.S. Carbon Dioxide Emissions From Fossil Fuels Declined By 1.3 Percent In 2006 (Science Daily)


Economist Bjorn Lomborg: Global warming is not a priority (Video) (17min)

Global Warming not a Cost-effective Target (Competitive Enterprise Institute)
Greens Concede Kyoto Will Not Impact 'Global Warming' (broken link) (CNSNews)
Kyoto Count Up! (Junk Science)
Kyoto projects harm ozone layer: U.N. official (Reuters)
Kyoto would cost a million Euro jobs, 80 billion euros by 2010 (broken link) (National Business Review)
Lessons of Kyoto (Patrick J. Michaels, Ph.D. Ecological Climatology)
The Fatal Conceit of Kyoto (The Frasier Institute)
The Kyoto Protocol and Global Warming (broken link) (PDF) (Sallie Baliunas, Ph.D. Astrophysics, Harvard)
The Kyoto Protocol is Dead (Reason Magazine)
The Press Gets It Wrong - Our report doesn't support the Kyoto treaty (The Wall Street Journal)
Truth about Kyoto: huge profits, little carbon saved (The Guardian, UK)

Among other things...
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Old 11-20-2007, 06:34 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,589 posts, read 74,481,084 times
Reputation: 48046
i dont want to be disrespectful of a long list of impressive people from the scientific community. however, i personally know several scientists of some acclaim who for some reason are not on your list.
i have discussed and listened to them on this subject. i am convinced global warming is an issue. you are going to see evidence of that issue very soon.
from what the soothsayers (not the scientists), are saying if you wana go with some sort of prediction, 2012 oct is the closest converging prediction i have heard.
im gona take some swimming lessons and get some swim fins ----
unless i move to texas or montana. sorry i could not come up with a prediction from a scientist, i dont think they are in that line of work mostly they write bout stuff after it happens. you know kinda like pompeii. by the way the really interesting thing bout pompeii is that there must have been a lot of folks that blew the whole notion of a disaster off i mean no attempt at all for disaster preparedness frozen right in their tracks on the sidwalk, lots of em. interesting.
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Old 11-20-2007, 08:24 PM
 
6,760 posts, read 10,418,661 times
Reputation: 2996
So will America in 2012 look just like a scene from that movie,,,, what was it? 2 Days After the Day Before Yesterday.....

I can't wait to see the massive tidal waves coming down on NY, tornadoes on every corner in Los Angeles and Hollywood, and my favorite part of our impending doom: temperatures dropping 100 degrees in a matter of seconds.

I'm ready....
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Old 11-20-2007, 08:25 PM
 
Location: High Bridge, NJ
3,858 posts, read 8,358,628 times
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Where's Tom Cruise? I'm sure one of his alien friends would know the answer!
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Old 11-20-2007, 08:46 PM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,850 posts, read 20,191,865 times
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Wow Poptech, that was a very impressive post, and I agree with all 7 of your points. There is no question that we have been in a global warming cycle since the end of the last ice-age, but to claim that it was caused entirely by the human species is a bit: pretentious, supercilious, arrogant, ignorant, uninformed - pick any two.
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Old 11-20-2007, 09:43 PM
 
114 posts, read 124,109 times
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Thanks, I almost forgot about that point:

8. The recent Global Warming (0.6c over 100 years [IPCC]) is very likely a 1500 Climate Cycle:

The Physical Evidence of Earth's Unstoppable 1,500-Year Climate Cycle (http://www.ncpa.org/pub/st/st279/ - broken link) (National Center for Policy Analysis)

Earth Cools In Persistent, 1,500-Year Rhythm, Say Columbia Scientists, Working From Sea Cores (Science Daily)
Global Warming Natural, May End Within 20 Years, Says Ohio State University Researcher (Science Daily)
Natural Climate Change May Be Larger Than Commonly Thought (Science Daily)
Pacific Ocean Temperature Changes Point To Natural Climate Variability (Science Daily)

Peer-Review Papers supporting the 1,500-Year Climate Cycle:

A 150,000-year climatic record from Antarctic ice
(Nature 316, 591 - 596, 15 August 1985)
- C. Lorius, C. Ritz, J. Jouzel, L. Merlivat, N. I. Barkov


A Pervasive Millennial-Scale Cycle in North Atlantic Holocene and Glacial Climates
(Science, Vol. 278. no. 5341, pp. 1257 - 1266, 14 November 1997)
- Gerard Bond, William Showers, Maziet Cheseby, Rusty Lotti, Peter Almasi, Peter deMenocal, Paul Priore, Heidi Cullen, Irka Hajdas, Georges Bonani


A Variable Sun Paces Millennial Climate
(Science, Vol. 294. no. 5546, pp. 1431 - 1433, 16 November 2001)
- Richard A. Kerr


Cyclic Variation and Solar Forcing of Holocene Climate in the Alaskan Subarctic
(Science, Vol. 301. no. 5641, pp. 1890 - 1893, 26 September 2003)
- Feng Sheng Hu, Darrell Kaufman, Sumiko Yoneji, David Nelson, Aldo Shemesh, Yongsong Huang, Jian Tian, Gerard Bond, Benjamin Clegg, Thomas Brown


Decadal to millennial cyclicity in varves and turbidites from the Arabian Sea: hypothesis of tidal origin
(Global and Planetary Change, Volume 34, Issues 3-4, Pages 313-325, November 2002)
- W. H. Bergera, U. von Rad


Late Holocene approximately 1500 yr climatic periodicities and their implications
(Geology, v. 26; no. 5; p. 471-473, May 1998)
- Ian D. Campbell, Celina Campbell, Michael J. Apps, Nathaniel W. Rutter, Andrew B. G. Bush


Possible solar origin of the 1,470-year glacial climate cycle demonstrated in a coupled model
(Nature 438, 208-211, 10 November 2005)
- Holger Braun, Marcus Christl, Stefan Rahmstorf, Andrey Ganopolski, Augusto Mangini, Claudia Kubatzki, Kurt Roth, Bernd Kromet


The 1,800-year oceanic tidal cycle: A possible cause of rapid climate change
(PNAS, vol. 97, no. 8, 3814-3819, April 11, 2000)
- Charles D. Keeling, Timothy P. Whorf


The origin of the 1500-year climate cycles in Holocene North-Atlantic records
(Climate of the Past Discussions, Volume 3, Issue 2, pp.679-692, 2007)
- M. Debret, V. Bout-Roumazeilles, F. Grousset, M. Desmet, J. F. McManus, N. Massei, D. Sebag, J.-R. Petit, Y. Copard, A. Trentesaux


Timing of abrupt climate change: A precise clock
(Geophysical Research Letters, Vol. 30, NO. 10, 1510, 2003)
- Stefan Rahmstorf


Timing of Millennial-Scale Climate Change in Antarctica and Greenland During the Last Glacial Period
(Science, Volume 291, Issue 5501, pp. 109-112, 2001)
- Thomas Blunier, Edward J. Brook


Widespread evidence of 1500 yr climate variability in North America during the past 14 000 yr
(Geology, v. 30, no. 5, p. 455-458, May 2002)
- André E. Viau, Konrad Gajewski, Philippe Fines, David E. Atkinson, Michael C. Sawada
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Old 11-20-2007, 10:55 PM
 
Location: Your mind
2,923 posts, read 4,569,507 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
Wow Poptech, that was a very impressive post, and I agree with all 7 of your points. There is no question that we have been in a global warming cycle since the end of the last ice-age, but to claim that it was caused entirely by the human species is a bit: pretentious, supercilious, arrogant, ignorant, uninformed - pick any two.
Who's claiming that?
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Old 11-21-2007, 04:20 AM
 
114 posts, read 124,109 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishmonger View Post
Who's claiming that?
Al Gore who else?
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