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Old 10-02-2013, 09:08 PM
 
308 posts, read 499,276 times
Reputation: 122

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Californian34 View Post
1. Lucario said there was a controversy.
Italians Contemplate Beauty in a Caribbean Brow - NYTimes.com

2. he said that in response to this controversy, she claimed to not be black, but Dominican. we have yet to substantiate if this is true. however, whether or not she identifies as black it is true that she was rejected by some Italians because she is perceived to be black. you said it was probably just her otherness, which doesn't seem to be the case.

3. I am very much aware that those of us who consider ourselves black come from a mixed background, which is not the same as being biracial or directly multi racial. we are, most of us, predominantly of west African descent. African and black are not synonymous. my statement that Benny looks similar to Beverly was in response to your assertion of her being obviously mixed. she is not more mixed than others who call ourselves black.
Thank you for providing a link. That's actually very helpful. I was waiting for a link. And no I did not say that her otherness was the sole reason of why some Italians were against Denny Mendez. The crux of the convo and discussion was on the point of whether or not she is perceived as or regarded as black. I don't deny that it was the non white or "of color" aspect of her being that contributed to the reasons of why she was hated against or abhored by many in Italian society. I then proceeded to say that we should factor in that we should factor in that perhaps she just wants to identify as Dominicana. But yes we agree that she is at least of some mixed Afrodescent.

Yes, most AAs are mixed race. Most AAs are MGM mixed aka multigenerationally multiracially mixed race. That's pretty mixed, it's just carried over and passed over thru each generation. The term of African American is an ETHNIC group term, NOT a racial one. It's about a shared unique experience.

I get what you mean though about Denny Mendez having a similar mix as other fellow Afrodiasporic Afrodescendants and blacks etc.

Thanks for clarifying.

 
Old 10-02-2013, 09:11 PM
 
308 posts, read 499,276 times
Reputation: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Californian34 View Post
well I was speaking specifically about Rodriguez's family's incest to keep the family light. I was not speaking about people who marry certain shades of people, so your response doesn't make a whole lot of sense in response to mine.
I know, however I was arguing the same point that you made as well as in addition to another point related to the topic. I was adding on.

However in no way shape or form have I ever or would I ever support incest. That's just plain wrong. Incest is just wrong.
 
Old 10-02-2013, 09:18 PM
 
8,091 posts, read 5,900,867 times
Reputation: 1578
Quote:
Originally Posted by riaelise View Post
You didn't respond as to why you used the term "grimy Black American". WTH? You are that full of hatred that you use the term "grimy" regarding an entire ethnic group for absolutely no reason whatsoever.
I didn't say all Black Americans are grimy....
 
Old 10-02-2013, 09:32 PM
 
Location: La lune et les étoiles
18,258 posts, read 22,491,742 times
Reputation: 19593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot_Handz View Post
I didn't say all Black Americans are grimy....
Your disdain is palpable.
 
Old 10-02-2013, 09:36 PM
 
308 posts, read 499,276 times
Reputation: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Californian34 View Post
" Also keep in mind that people marrying within their own families was to also help maintain their names of prestige or to maintain their higher or wealthy social standing regardless of skin color."

kind of sounds like you're justifying it here.
No. I was not supporting such. I was simply explaining the means of what was at stake and why one especially during olden times would engage in incest and have something to maintain. There were reasons behind what they did, which is understandable given those times and what was at stake looking at it from their points of view.

Me personally, I think it's repulsive and disgusting. I think it's illegal and considered universally unacceptable these days anyway.


Anyway my belief is that it is WRONG, period!
 
Old 10-02-2013, 09:49 PM
 
308 posts, read 499,276 times
Reputation: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
Easy there, please.

Most people can self ID all they want. Tho it can be real messy if a pasty white skin person tries to claim "Kenyan" tho there ARE "anglo" Kenyans who are citizens of that country. OTOH: I see and especially hear a "Black" person from Ireland or England and I think "Irish" or "English"; NOT "Black". LOL
Woah. Easy there please.

I support the idea of people self ID'ing as they please. Please look at who and what I was responding to.

At the end of the day it comes down to how they identify themselves.

I think people tend to identify by place od origin or by culture or by nationality which I frankly feel is way more important than race. People will obviously put others into boxes and categories but at the end of the day there is so much diversity in the world boxes thru racial lens is not all that contains one. Identity is fluid.

And as I said earlier, if a person wants to identify as white that looks very black they should be able to, just as much as ppl accept it the other way around and vice versa. Besides all peoples are equal to whites in my opinion. We need to challenge the white supremacist status quo.

Yeah blacks have been in the United Kingdom and Britain for several centuries so I could understand them rejecting the label of black. In fact blacks helped contribute to and form the fabric of what would become the UK and the British.

I think the term Black American and African American seperate ppl of color from their American government and creates more division and separation. All are Americans damn it. But that's all for another debate or thread.
 
Old 10-02-2013, 10:23 PM
 
Location: La lune et les étoiles
18,258 posts, read 22,491,742 times
Reputation: 19593
Quote:
Originally Posted by ParadigmizedFactions View Post
Woah. Easy there please.

I support the idea of people self ID'ing as they please. Please look at who and what I was responding to.

At the end of the day it comes down to how they identify themselves.

I think people tend to identify by place od origin or by culture or by nationality which I frankly feel is way more important than race. People will obviously put others into boxes and categories but at the end of the day there is so much diversity in the world boxes thru racial lens is not all that contains one. Identity is fluid.

And as I said earlier, if a person wants to identify as white that looks very black they should be able to, just as much as ppl accept it the other way around and vice versa. Besides all peoples are equal to whites in my opinion. We need to challenge the white supremacist status quo.

Yeah blacks have been in the United Kingdom and Britain for several centuries so I could understand them rejecting the label of black. In fact blacks helped contribute to and form the fabric of what would become the UK and the British.

I think the term Black American and African American seperate ppl of color from their American government and creates more division and separation. All are Americans damn it. But that's all for another debate or thread.
People are free to label themselves as they wish. This is true. However, those same people can NOT require others to label them in that manner. No one has any control over how others categorize them.
 
Old 10-03-2013, 12:50 AM
 
308 posts, read 499,276 times
Reputation: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucario View Post
"The Hispanic scholarship?"

What's that?
I forget to add earlier, that the beef between Haitians and Dominicans also stems from the Haitian invasion and oppression Haitians imposed on Dominicans and ruling them for many decades, especially until 1844. Many Dominicans still carry resentment from that and the massacres of Dominicans by Haitians. Haitians also bashed them fir being mixed and whiter and also tried to reconfigure and change their culture and sever ties with Pope and the papal states and tried to limit the Catholic church in Dominican Republic cultural life, society and affairs. :/

So it goes a lot deeper. I think that with Trujillo in power it brought Dominican Republic-Haitians to an ultimate low and did lots if damage.
 
Old 10-03-2013, 12:53 AM
 
308 posts, read 499,276 times
Reputation: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by calipoppy View Post
People are free to label themselves as they wish. This is true. However, those same people can NOT require others to label them in that manner. No one has any control over how others categorize them.
Yep, very true. And in addition that's why I always find it funny when ppl ASSume and label and categorize others yet they abhor when it is done to them in the same manner. It's like they/these people can dish it out but can't take it. Contradiction and hypocrisy knows absolutely NO bounds.
 
Old 10-03-2013, 08:20 AM
 
15,066 posts, read 6,145,649 times
Reputation: 5124
Quote:
Originally Posted by ParadigmizedFactions View Post
Dominicans and Haitians have a lot of similarities and shared overlappings but there are certain things that differentiate them.

Also, in addition, another thing that I should note is that this is all political. In fact how do we know that this Jakiyah girl is even African American or of AA descent? She could also be of some type of West Indian descent. West Indians, and even Africans have not been given political platform to differentiate themselves as seperate groups of people from actual colonial African Americans of the USA, and Afro Latinos have this option and escape hatch due to the semantics of the Latino and even the Arab labels (as pertains to Afro Arabs).
Thank you. That poster is over there calling the child a "grimy black american" which is itself disgusting. It is true, however, that we actually have no idea of her background. She could very well be West Indian-American or even of recent African background. The surname McKoy can be found in the Caribbean/West Indies.
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