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Old 10-02-2013, 07:40 AM
 
Location: Huntersville/Charlotte, NC and Washington, DC
26,691 posts, read 41,629,721 times
Reputation: 41324

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Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
No, it's not.
What is ridiculous is expecting some people to pay more "just because they can."
What is ridiculous is allowing people who pay no taxes to vote on taxes.

THAT is ridiculous.

I am for a consumption tax.
The rich will continue to pay more, just like everyone likes.
No one gets exemptions or deductions or loopholes. Corporations included.
What is ridiculous is not allowing someone their right to vote just because they, supposedly, dont pay taxes. They probably do in some fashion, ever heard of sales tax? I think a progressive tax system is fair. The people up top making $1 million ain't gonna starve paying half their income in taxes. Average Joe making $40k will.
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Old 10-02-2013, 08:02 AM
 
Location: Metairie, LA
1,097 posts, read 2,333,146 times
Reputation: 1488
Do you know what would happen if the richest people in the country paid more taxes?

They would still be the richest people in the country.
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Old 10-02-2013, 12:13 PM
 
1,706 posts, read 2,429,086 times
Reputation: 1037
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLAZER PROPHET View Post
How much tax is fair and reasonable to pay?

10%? 25%? 40%? 50%? 60%?

Is it fair to demand those who make more, pay more percentage of their income in tax?

It seems to me we all have 'skin in the game' with respect to running the nation and each should pay an equal percentage. I would also argue that fraud, waste and abuse as well as overly funded social payouts could reduce income taxes 50%.
The idea of a flat tax is easily debunked.

Is a flat tax, where everyone, the rich and the poor pay the same - fair? Shouldn't everyone pay the same amount?

Simply put -- no. It's not fair; it's a ridiculous idea on many levels. Why?
Simply put -- the rich should pay more taxes, because the rich get more from the government.

The trillions of dollars that the government spends to protect American interests abroad - defending the country, trading with other countries, etc. Big business (owned by rich people) are direct beneficiaries of such efforts by the government. You think a person that makes 20K a month wants his tax dollars to be spent in South Korea propping up BIG American Company interests (e.g. sell more American cars - GM, Ford).

The trillions of tax dollars that the government spends to build infrastructure - roads, bridges, airports, shipping yards. You think a person making 20K wants his tax dollars to be spend on upgrading the Panama Canal so that larger ships can go through more efficiently?

I hope my point is made. Rich should pay more because they get more.
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Old 10-02-2013, 12:30 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
4,761 posts, read 7,808,367 times
Reputation: 5328
And the so-called rich DO pay more taxes currently, and would with a flat tax in place. Without all of the deductions and loopholes, we could probably get by with a 10-20% flat tax. But, the government would have to do away with some of the unnecessary expenditures. Our local government just spent $130,000 on a park opening party. $33,000 to Jo Dee Messina to play some music for a bit. Stuff like that needs to go, on the local and federal level.

But, getting government to stop spending money foolishly is a pipe dream.
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Old 10-02-2013, 12:51 PM
bg7
 
7,694 posts, read 10,528,591 times
Reputation: 15298
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandman249 View Post
The idea of a flat tax is easily debunked.

Is a flat tax, where everyone, the rich and the poor pay the same - fair? Shouldn't everyone pay the same amount?

Simply put -- no. It's not fair; it's a ridiculous idea on many levels. Why?
Simply put -- the rich should pay more taxes, because the rich get more from the government.

The trillions of dollars that the government spends to protect American interests abroad - defending the country, trading with other countries, etc. Big business (owned by rich people) are direct beneficiaries of such efforts by the government. You think a person that makes 20K a month wants his tax dollars to be spent in South Korea propping up BIG American Company interests (e.g. sell more American cars - GM, Ford).

The trillions of tax dollars that the government spends to build infrastructure - roads, bridges, airports, shipping yards. You think a person making 20K wants his tax dollars to be spend on upgrading the Panama Canal so that larger ships can go through more efficiently?

I hope my point is made. Rich should pay more because they get more.
No your point isn't made, you "debunk" something which is not true, or which is a myth. The flat tax can be a real thing. Whether you agree with its consequences or not is a different matter, but you can't debunk it.

And the rich do pay more, under both a flat tax and a progressive tax, because they earn more. If you can't discern between absolute amounts and percentage amounts you really shouldn't be making such statements. If you mean the rich should pay a greater percentage, then say so.
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Old 10-02-2013, 01:52 PM
 
49 posts, read 86,420 times
Reputation: 20
This thread will get nasty soon. However, I can't help but jump right in because Tax is what I have been thinking about a lot lately.
Background: I do have good salary and a big family (lots of kids). I'm more than happy to pay my share tax. However, reform is needed.

There are 2 part of why we pay tax: Fairness & Responsibility.

Fairness: You help pay for the benefit you received (public infrastructure, government services etc.). Here, flat-tax is fair. Yes, higher income still pay more $ wise. However, it is likely that your income is proportional to the services that you used, hence higher $ in tax. For example, a person making $50K is likely to travel (road, air, train etc.) less than the one who make $100K. Not always the case, but generally, that is probably true.
Responsibility: However, as a society, we do have a social obligation to help making the society better. And part of making the society better is to help the unfortunate who can't help themselves. Those who get helped (like some of us when we were poor), in turn, will help those less fortunate then them in the future. Here, is why we pay higher tax percentage wise as our income rise. This is not socialism. This is shared-responsibility.

I'm perfectly fine with that concept. The problem is that the tax system is full of holes and traps that make you pay more while someone else can scheme it so they can pay less. Take AMT for example, I'm not millionaire by a long shot, heck, I'm not even a quarter-millionaire with many kids to feed, why hit me with AMT? I pay huge property tax, why can't I deduct that? I'm paying tax on a tax I paid. Such traps are there to get the middle-class people like me while letting the real millionaires get away.

In that sense, I am paying more to cover for those who paying less than their fair-share. And that is NOT FAIR.
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Old 10-02-2013, 01:55 PM
 
2,888 posts, read 6,522,552 times
Reputation: 4653
I have no problem with paying a high rate of taxes IF my money is well spent. Roads, bridges, basic infrastructure should meet demands and be properly maintained. I also support SSI and Affordable Care.

I don't want to pay any amount for: congressional health benefits, congressional retirement, or congressional pay when there is no budget. No money for welfare. No special exemptions for number of dependents. We all need to help pay for schools, but I believe that the more kids one has, the more school taxes one should pay.

The only tax break people should get is for charity. And charities should be carefully screened. If I didn't pay so much for things I don't believe in - I would be willing to pay a whole lot more for things I do believe in.
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Old 10-02-2013, 02:04 PM
 
4,921 posts, read 7,673,898 times
Reputation: 5482
It is easy to see the unfairness of the US tax system when you consider that 99% of the wealth is held by the top 1%. The fact is that largest earners pay the lowest tax rate of around 15%. Mitt Romney with earnings in the millions paid only 13%. Warren Buffet points out this unfairness stating he pays less than 15% while his secretary pays 35% in taxes.

Who benefits from this tax unfairness? Big business. We now live in a corporate government run by corporations who dictate to the puppets of politics on their behalf. The average American doesn't stand a chance.

If the system was really fair then why not a flat tax with no loopholes or exemptions?
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Old 10-02-2013, 02:49 PM
 
49 posts, read 86,420 times
Reputation: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissNM View Post
I have no problem with paying a high rate of taxes IF my money is well spent. Roads, bridges, basic infrastructure should meet demands and be properly maintained. I also support SSI and Affordable Care.

I don't want to pay any amount for: congressional health benefits, congressional retirement, or congressional pay when there is no budget. No money for welfare. No special exemptions for number of dependents. We all need to help pay for schools, but I believe that the more kids one has, the more school taxes one should pay.

The only tax break people should get is for charity. And charities should be carefully screened. If I didn't pay so much for things I don't believe in - I would be willing to pay a whole lot more for things I do believe in.
I wish it can be that black & white. If my kids don't go to public school, can I not paying school tax? A society of >300M people cannot function with everyone only do what they believe in but nothing more, nothing less.
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Old 10-02-2013, 03:06 PM
 
17,389 posts, read 11,938,010 times
Reputation: 16137
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
It depends on what we get back. Seriously there are benefits for which I would pay 60% for.

edit-and before anyone assumes I am poor and want a handout or etc etc.

Im in the top 20% for income in the nation. Id be hurt worse then most on these sorts of taxes.
NOTHING the government could ever give me would be something I'd be willing to pay 60% for.
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