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Old 10-09-2013, 07:01 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 13,920,077 times
Reputation: 5661

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patricius Maximus View Post
Special tax breaks for those who do what they're told by the government is not what I call a "tax cut". It would have been more productive to simplify the tax code and bring down the rates. Also, if they were going to spend $787 billion they should have spent it on infrastructure, since the highway system, sewer system, and electrical grid are all falling apart and need upgrades regardless. About as much was spent on COBRA as was spent on highways and bridges, which is just pathetic.
The merit of targeted tax-cuts is outside the topic. The question was where did Mr. Obama compromise. He didn't want any tax cuts, which are the least efficient stimulus, but accepted GOP insistence and got none of their votes anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patricius Maximus View Post
The average American family has lost more income during the recovery the Stimulus supposedly stimulated as they did during the recession, which is not a record I'd be proud of. You may not be of the same persuasion as these people, but a host of respected economists and researchers believe the Stimulus didn't work. Also, if you're looking for "ideological morons", Paul Krugman would be a good candidate, what with his calling for preparing for an alien invasion to save the economy, apparently working under the deluded view that the more we spend the better off we'll be.
The economy was on the brink of depression and activist fiscal and monetary policy prevented a return of the 1930s.

You also seem to not understand Keynesian economics if you believe it means " the more we spend the better off we'll be." Keynes said that under the unique conditions of a liquidity trap, large government expenditures and loose monetary policy is not inflationary. He also said government should build surpluses in boom times.

It is indeed true that large government expenditures during a low demand economic condition do indeed induce economic growth.

Also, when you said, "the average American family has lost more income during the recovery...as they did during the recession," you again have your facts wrong, as illustrated below:


Last edited by MTAtech; 10-09-2013 at 07:10 AM..

 
Old 10-09-2013, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas,Nevada
9,282 posts, read 6,730,331 times
Reputation: 1531
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
The merit of targeted tax-cuts is outside the topic. The question was where did Mr. Obama compromise. He didn't want any tax cuts, which are the least efficient stimulus, but accepted GOP insistence and got none of their votes anyway.

The economy was on the brink of depression and activist fiscal and monetary policy prevented a return of the 1930s.

You also seem to not understand Keynesian economics if you believe it means " the more we spend the better off we'll be." Keynes said that under the unique conditions of a liquidity trap, large government expenditures and loose monetary policy is not inflationary. He also said government should build surpluses in boom times.

It is indeed true that large government expenditures during a low demand economic condition do indeed induce economic growth.

Also, when you said, "the average American family has lost more income during the recovery...as they did during the recession," you again have your facts wrong, as illustrated below:

You are Keynesian economics is at best a wash, right?
 
Old 10-09-2013, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas,Nevada
9,282 posts, read 6,730,331 times
Reputation: 1531
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan_Azteca View Post
The fence thing is definitely not happening. The government is going to give amnesty to the immigrants. It happened in the Reagan days, and it's going to happen now. In the end, the United States needs immigrants, the white population isn't having babies and is aging and will soon be actually losing numbers.

California has a 440 billion deficit, and its economy is roughly 2 trillion dollars. Canada's economy is roughly 1.5 trillion, their debt , 1.2 trillion. Canada has a smaller population than Canada. Just fear mongering about illegal immigration really, that is, if you look at the facts.


"There are many ways to debate immigration, but when it comes to economics, there isn’t much of a debate at all. Nearly all economists, of all political persuasions, agree that immigrants — those here legally or not — benefit the overall economy. “That is not controversial,” Heidi Shierholz, an economist at the Economic Policy Institute, told me. Shierholz also said that “there is a consensus that, on average, the incomes of families in this country are increased by a small, but clearly positive amount, because of immigration.”"

"The benefit multiplies over the long haul. As the baby boomers retire, the post-boom generation’s burden to finance their retirement is greatly alleviated by undocumented immigrants. Stephen Goss, chief actuary for the Social Security Administration, told me that undocumented workers contribute about $15 billion a year to Social Security through payroll taxes. They only take out $1 billion (very few undocumented workers are eligible to receive benefits). Over the years, undocumented workers have contributed up to $300 billion, or nearly 10 percent, of the $2.7 trillion Social Security Trust Fund"

"The problem, though, is that undocumented workers are not evenly distributed. In areas like southern Texas and Arizona and even parts of Brooklyn, undocumented immigrants impose a substantial net cost to local and state governments, Shierholz says. Immigrants use public assistance, medical care and schools. Some immigrant neighborhoods have particularly high crime rates. Jared Bernstein, a fellow at the Center for Budget and Policy Priorities, told me that these are also areas in which low-educated workers are most likely to face stiff competition from immigrants. It’s no wonder why so much political furor comes from these regions."


Here's my source: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/17/ma...anted=all&_r=0
Have you seen what have done to California? this idea that the Republican party will fall n it sword by giving illegals amnesty an the right to vote is a joke, plus the dems will have a lot of union and what reminds of the white vote as well as a great deal of the black vote, so this idea that will just open our arms and take them is in a joke.

They cost this nation 120 to 200 billion a year...Any thing less are cooked numbers of the amnesty lobby.

And you want to give them amnesty during this time of economic downturn? more proof liberals hate America.
 
Old 10-09-2013, 01:03 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas,Nevada
9,282 posts, read 6,730,331 times
Reputation: 1531
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
No, they are due to employers getting away with hiring illegals. If you want to end illegals working this this country, you go after the ones with money, the employers.
Why cant we go after both?
 
Old 10-09-2013, 01:11 PM
 
Location: North America
19,784 posts, read 15,081,959 times
Reputation: 8527
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
No, they are due to employers getting away with hiring illegals. If you want to end illegals working this this country, you go after the ones with money, the employers.

Which means the illegal immigrant problem will never be solved. They will just continue to pass the amnesty bills and try to sucker the public into thinking that's reform.
 
Old 10-09-2013, 01:14 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas,Nevada
9,282 posts, read 6,730,331 times
Reputation: 1531
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Yes, lets let the adults solve the issues because your silly fence is nothing more than fantasy because you have no idea how much this fence would even cost.
if fence do not work, how do you explain

San diego border fence success


https://www.google.com/search?q=let+...+fence+success

Or the success of the Israeli border fence

https://www.google.com/search?q=let+...+fence&spell=1


Or the Korean Demilitarized Zone

https://www.google.com/search?q=let+...n+border+fence

Fence and Border work, but not if the fools in Washington don't enforce them...
 
Old 10-09-2013, 01:47 PM
 
138 posts, read 327,685 times
Reputation: 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunlover View Post
Have you seen what have done to California? this idea that the Republican party will fall n it sword by giving illegals amnesty an the right to vote is a joke, plus the dems will have a lot of union and what reminds of the white vote as well as a great deal of the black vote, so this idea that will just open our arms and take them is in a joke.

They cost this nation 120 to 200 billion a year...Any thing less are cooked numbers of the amnesty lobby.

And you want to give them amnesty during this time of economic downturn? more proof liberals hate America.
I've never seen a study that suggest illegals are a burden to the economy. I've seen on Fox News, and Liberal media outlets that show that illegals are in fact giving back more to the economy than they are taking. You clearly don't know what you're talking about. Where is the study for your claim? Why is California's debt smaller than Canada's if illegals are such a burden? Why has California's economy expanded? Why is it studies have shown that illegals are actually giving back more than they take?
 
Old 10-09-2013, 02:29 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,001 posts, read 35,102,216 times
Reputation: 7875
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunlover View Post
if fence do not work, how do you explain

San diego border fence success


https://www.google.com/search?q=let+...+fence+success

Or the success of the Israeli border fence

https://www.google.com/search?q=let+...+fence&spell=1


Or the Korean Demilitarized Zone

https://www.google.com/search?q=let+...n+border+fence

Fence and Border work, but not if the fools in Washington don't enforce them...
None of the links worked for me, so I can't comment on them. Were they from specific articles or you just typing random words into Google and searching?
 
Old 10-09-2013, 02:44 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas,Nevada
9,282 posts, read 6,730,331 times
Reputation: 1531
Quote:
Originally Posted by carterstamp View Post
Which means the illegal immigrant problem will never be solved. They will just continue to pass the amnesty bills and try to sucker the public into thinking that's reform.
Wow even Carterstamp can see this..
 
Old 10-09-2013, 02:44 PM
 
138 posts, read 327,685 times
Reputation: 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
None of the links worked for me, so I can't comment on them. Were they from specific articles or you just typing random words into Google and searching?
Random words.
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