Why do people think our taxes are too high? (weapon, crime rate, military)
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Right, because we have a developed and civilized country. The developing world doesn't have a high tax burden, but they don't provide the safety and stability that developed countries do.
We have a high tax burden and others do not because the government spends our tax dollars trying to police the world, and others do not. Second, I do not need the government to sink my pay into an unstable programs for my benefit. There's nothing safe or stable about what our "civilized country" is doing... 16 trill in dept and counting should tell you that much..
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Originally Posted by lycos679
That's a state issue, not every state has an income tax.
Most do and whether it's a state issue or not, it's still a tax issue. You asked "why do people think our taxes are too high", and then you want to discount certain taxes that people have to pay which contributes to why they think their taxes are to high as a way to further your argument.
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Originally Posted by lycos679
Property taxes are for local services. You can find a place with no property taxes, but it's doubtful that you would want to live there.
What difference does it make what the taxes that are taken out our used for? We still pay too much taxes regardless of what the taxes that are taken are used for.
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Originally Posted by lycos679
Not really, the higher taxed places tend to have lower murder rates because it takes money to educate people and to provide police and court services.
You completely missed the point... It was an example that had nothing to do with murder rates.. Your whole premise is that, because there are other countries may have higher rates, we should except our high rates. The analogy that I posted about was meant to show how idiotic that premise is.
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Originally Posted by lycos679
Not really, the higher taxed places tend to have lower murder rates because it takes money to educate people and to provide police and court services.
To respond to this anyway, higher taxed places may have lower murder rates because there are more hard working people to tax. In the areas of this country that have the most law enforcement presence and "court services" are filled with people who do not typically pay any taxes, but commit more crimes, so that whole argument is pure bs... High taxes does not make the murder rate go down... More people at work who get to keep more of their money makes the crime rate go down.
That's like trying to justify buying a Cadillac you can't afford because the guy down the street bought a Mercedes. Trying to keep up with Jone's isn't a sound financial plan.
I think comparisons of tax rates with other countries is misleading. You also need to compare what those taxes provide for each country's citizens. Universal healthcare without premiums and copays comes immediately to mind. Look at the infrastructure. This country's been on a downhill slide for a long time. Some countries provide cradle-to-grave social services to include adequate retirement funds. At the risk of being trite, it's all relative. Look at bang for the buck!
I guess high or low is relative according to your perspective. If they are 40% with minimal gov waste, minimal debt and systems are not being abused then I would say taxes are fair.
If the Fed is spending money like a drunken sailor, burying the nation in debt then no matter what the taxes are they are too high.
If taxes are raised for the purpose of wealth redistribution they are always wrong.
I won't speak for the countries mentioned in the OP other than to say each and every one of them have lived under the umbrella of US generosity.
We still have 45,000 troops in Germany and another 11,000 in Italy and 9,000 in Britain. Has anybody been to Europe lately?? They can stand on their own two feet. If you are a Republican and you like this than I would suggest you pay for it by raising taxes.
I think because some working folks at the upper income range have a 50% tax rate, between federal, state and local.
In my state, that is 51.8%. That is just for federal and state income taxes. Throw in gas tax, tax on utilities, property tax, sales tax, excise tax, tax on this, tax on that... We paid sales tax on a new car, first year it was registered was closer to $1000 than $500.
Well... you get the point... I'd gander some of us are paying European taxes, and stilling paying on the rear for health care, education, etc. At least many Europeans paying out the rear for taxes get universal health care, which I'd gander takes a bunch of stress out of life over the long run.
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Originally Posted by 9162
Why do uneducated people continue to compare the U.S., a capitalist country that relies heavily on consumerism, to other countries? Taxes often go up faster than inflation, particularly property taxes.
Why do uneducated people think the US is the only capitalist country in the world?
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Originally Posted by malamute
Speak for yourself, maybe you are among the almost half that pays no income taxes. Mine are far too high.
I agree with those who say taxes should be across the board. There are too few who pay taxes at all, of course they don't see any problem.
Everybody pays taxes in some form or another. If people aren't paying income taxes, most often is because they're not earning enough, but that's another subject that requires more brainpower.
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Originally Posted by tinman01
I guess high or low is relative according to your perspective. If they are 40% with minimal gov waste, minimal debt and systems are not being abused then I would say taxes are fair.
If the Fed is spending money like a drunken sailor, burying the nation in debt then no matter what the taxes are they are too high.
If taxes are raised for the purpose of wealth redistribution they are always wrong.
I won't speak for the countries mentioned in the OP other than to say each and every one of them have lived under the umbrella of US generosity.
The US decides to **** it's money away playing world cop. The US can stop anytime it pleases. Hell, even cutting back on the money we **** away in this "war on drugs" is outrageous. Does anyone ever think how much we could save just legalizing pot now, instead of in 20 years? Why stop at saving... how about earning in revenue off legal sales of it...
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Originally Posted by lycos679
Property taxes are for local services. You can find a place with no property taxes, but it's doubtful that you would want to live there.
There are industrialized countries that don't have a property tax, and instead rely on local government getting funds through the bigger government. IMO; Property taxes are extremely lopsided. Especially when you look at how much goes to public education (I'm all for public education, but I'd bet money that we could cut our spending on it in half and greatly improve performance) and police (been to NYC lately? personally I find many of them are inept fools or egotistical *******s.). I could get more into it, but that's another subject, which starts with this whole "private property" can easily be seized for not paying "taxes" on it year after year.
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Originally Posted by lycos679
Right, because we have a developed and civilized country. The developing world doesn't have a high tax burden, but they don't provide the safety and stability that developed countries do.
Except we spend far too much of our taxes on wasteful spending in the name of defense, instead of actually using it to benefit the people. Our infrastructure is crumbling, healthcare is a mess, schools are a joke. But we can blow **** up better than anyone else?
I do believe in defense, but I do not believe in extremely excessive spending while chasing ghosts around the globe (We're also fighting this "war on terror" in the wrong manner, but that is also another subject. We really lost our senses after Vietnam...). We seem to be alright as a society being afraid of what's in the shadows, while completely forgetting that these ghosts were created by our government in past decades through meddling in their affairs...
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Originally Posted by lycos679
Taxes are at a historic low actually. Property taxes usually go up as the value of the property goes up.
Property taxes don't have to have anything to do with the value of property. It's what the assessor says it is worth. The value of property is based off what somebody is willing to pay for it, which is a bit more complicated than some assessor sitting in an office taking a wild guess.
A property in my parents town is assessed at $1.2 mil. It sold for $280k. It's still assessed at $1.2 mil, they didn't care for his appeal. I wouldn't even pay $280k for it.
One problem is that due to the complexity, nobody truly knows how much taxes they are paying. There are fed, state, and local taxes. Sometimes a tax might apply at all three levels, like w/ booze, tobacco, and gas. If you travel you pay out the wazoo now for hotels, rental cars, etc. And there are embedded taxes that you will never uncover unless you are a Sherlock Holmes. And there's probably a tax for being Sherlock, too.
As an experiment I once tried to track all of my taxes about 20 years ago. I was a single, childless, low-wage worker and I estimated that my tax bill came to about 30% of my income. I didn't try to account for embedded taxes. Was that too high? For me, considering what percentage of my well-being came from government, the answer was a definite yes.
If gov't is responsible for 30% of my well-being, take 30% of my pay. If I am 99% responsible then take only 1%. Even God only had the temerity to ask for 10%; gov't asks for anywhere from 30 to 50 on up.
Just because other countries are over taxed does not mean Americans aren't taxed too much. I suppose you think we should have to pay $10 / gallon for gas too, just because some other countries do. Maybe we should ditch the Constitution too, because other countries don't have one. Maybe we should change the courts to guilty until proven innocent like some EU countries do or let prosecutors appeal "not guilty" verdicts until they can get a conviction.
One thing we should do, like every other country, is stop being World Cop. Lets let the rest of the world carry their weight if they want to enforce international law.
One problem is that due to the complexity, nobody truly knows how much taxes they are paying. There are fed, state, and local taxes. Sometimes a tax might apply at all three levels, like w/ booze, tobacco, and gas. If you travel you pay out the wazoo now for hotels, rental cars, etc. And there are embedded taxes that you will never uncover unless you are a Sherlock Holmes. And there's probably a tax for being Sherlock, too.
As an experiment I once tried to track all of my taxes about 20 years ago. I was a single, childless, low-wage worker and I estimated that my tax bill came to about 30% of my income. I didn't try to account for embedded taxes. Was that too high? For me, considering what percentage of my well-being came from government, the answer was a definite yes.
If gov't is responsible for 30% of my well-being, take 30% of my pay. If I am 99% responsible then take only 1%. Even God only had the temerity to ask for 10%; gov't asks for anywhere from 30 to 50 on up.
All those embedded taxes are used for things that the public uses. There are plenty of indirect things that also benefit your life that still cost something.
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