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So what would it take for the metrics to be in line for blacks and whites? And what will it take for both blacks and whites to catch up to asians? If going post racial will not help, what will?
The Asian numbers are skewed by 1, how they are filtered into the nation, and 2, the fact that they are concentrated in higher cost of living metro areas where salaries tend to be higher. The best and brightest Asians come here on work visas or student visas, which accounts for their high relative performance when compared with your AVERAGE American.
What it will take to get the metrics in line between blacks and whites is to reverse the effort. America needs to put as much effort into lifting black people up as it put into keeping black people down. The quagmire is that why would a nation that saw fit to oppress blacks want to then lift them back up? The reason it will not happen is that America, for the most part, still believes in the inferiority of blacks and such such as a wasted effort......even if they WANTED to do it.....which they don't.
The Asian numbers are skewed by 1, how they are filtered into the nation, and 2, the fact that they are concentrated in higher cost of living metro areas where salaries tend to be higher. The best and brightest Asians come here on work visas or student visas, which accounts for their high relative performance when compared with your AVERAGE American.
What it will take to get the metrics in line between blacks and whites is to reverse the effort. America needs to put as much effort into lifting black people up as it put into keeping black people down. The quagmire is that why would a nation that saw fit to oppress blacks want to then lift them back up? The reason it will not happen is that America, for the most part, still believes in the inferiority of blacks and such such as a wasted effort......even if they WANTED to do it.....which they don't.
Disregarding income, how can blacks and whites catch up to asian Americans on test scores and IQ?
Disregarding income, how can blacks and whites catch up to asian Americans on test scores and IQ?
What would lifting black people up look like?
I do not know that there is a difference. I do not know what the average IQ is in Asia, relative to what the Average IQ here is in the US among sub groups. It certainly would not be intelligent to compare the IQ's of Asians in America, given that most or first or second generation Asians who often represent ABOVE AVERAGE Asians. You would not compare the above average Asians with the "Average" scores of Americans. That would just be bad statistical analysis.
This is what you DON'T GOT. No matter what has happened in the last 50 years, what we are as a nation is shaped by the last 300 years. What if the revolutionary war never happened? What if the Civil War never happened? What if Germany Won WWII? Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, who we are is who we were, because the past begot the present. Thus, I am blaming the PRESENT on the PAST and what you cannot live with, which nobody is holding you responsible for, is that white society oppressed black people for over 3 centuries and hence that past begot the conditions of socioeconomic racial inequality that exist in this nation today.
Think of GM. GM at one time had Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Chevy, GMC, Cadillac, Saturn and more. If GM wants to maximize its profits, it cannot become "post Division", thereby not paying attention to what divisions are doing good and what divisions are doing bad in order to TARGET the divisions that are doing bad for improvement. Maybe they need to change the styling, the marketing effort or something else in the poorer performing divisions, which will increase the overall performance of the company.
In this country black unemployment is over twice the rate of whites. Black poverty is nearly 3 times the rate of whites and black wealth is 10 times less than whites. Just think how much stronger the overall economy would be if those metric were inline with the metrics for whites? Just thing how much less transfer payments savings the tax payers would enjoy if there was not so much unemployment and poverty in the black community? Thus, blacks are a target demographic that needs to be identified and targeted for uplift based upon its problems which are unique in degree and or kind. You cannot just lump immigrants, blacks, poor whites and given the group the same prescription when what ails each group is different in degree and or kind. It would be like a person with cancer, a person with diabetes and a person with heart problems all going to the doctor and given the same medicine, as opposed to having treatment targeted at the particulars of their ailments.
Yet, the majority of blacks remain silent on illegal immigration. Illegal immigration in part is why they remain unemployed.
I do not know that there is a difference. I do not know what the average IQ is in Asia, relative to what the Average IQ here is in the US among sub groups. It certainly would not be intelligent to compare the IQ's of Asians in America, given that most or first or second generation Asians who often represent ABOVE AVERAGE Asians. You would not compare the above average Asians with the "Average" scores of Americans. That would just be bad statistical analysis.
It would look like equality.
Well lets take a hypothetical high school, metro high. It wouldn't be unreasonable to say our hypothetical high school has asians performing higher on average (as is often the case, whether it be because they are immigrants or for whatever other cultural reason). Assuming that this is the case, is there anything that the non asian communities could do to raise the other students up to the level of the highest performing asians? Over the course of generations or whatever time period might be necessary, could the racial groups perform equally on average, and what would it take in your opinion to make that happen?
Well lets take a hypothetical high school, metro high. It wouldn't be unreasonable to say our hypothetical high school has asians performing higher on average (as is often the case, whether it be because they are immigrants or for whatever other cultural reason). Assuming that this is the case, is there anything that the non asian communities could do to raise the other students up to the level of the highest performing asians? Over the course of generations or whatever time period might be necessary, could the racial groups perform equally on average, and what would it take in your opinion to make that happen?
I do not accept that hypothetical because it could very well represent a sampling error. The bottom line is that there does exist individual variation in ability, based upon genetics. Hence, you are not going to get people with average genetic capacity to perform at the level of Steven Hawking, regardless of how hard you try. Asians are a small minority group in America and generally for them to get to America they have to demonstrate above average abilities, as the "average" Asian does not get to migrate to America. So to me....your premise is flawed using Asians as a standard. There are blacks and whites with high IQ's. One could pool them together and then ask "what does it take to get the rest of blacks and whites to perform on their level".
Blacks and whites are large populations that are mostly 7 or more generation Americans. Asians are mostly recent immigrants. Its apples to oranges.
Last edited by Indentured Servant; 10-16-2013 at 10:44 AM..
I do not accept that hypothetical because it could very well represent a sampling error. The bottom line is that there does exist individual variation in ability, based upon genetics. Hence, you are not going to get people with average genetic capacity to perform at the level of Steven Hawking, regardless of how hard you try. Asians are a small minority group in America and generally for them to get to America they have to demonstrate above average abilities, as the "average" Asian does not get to migrate to America. So to me....your premise is flawed using Asians as a standard. There are blacks and whites with high IQ's. One could pool them together and then ask "what does it take to get the rest of blacks and whites to perform on their level".
Genetics do not explain it, nor is it simply bad sample groups, because there are groups of similar races genetically which consistently perform differently (for example african Americans and Somali immigrants (these are refugees not the elite who choose to migrate)). Culture, not genetics, is the segregating force which causes groups to outperform or underperform others. You would have a hard time today finding many people in America who think blacks are genetically inferior (that group of racists is aging fast and mostly died off) but you could find many who think they are culturally inferior. And I say that would end in a society which no longer keeps track of race.
But I still want to hear what you think can allow an underperforming group to progress.
Would there be a down side of going post-racial as a society? (disregarding race)
Would the down side be bad enough to warrant stamping out any progress towards a post-racial society?
We could never live in a post-racial society because of this thing called "white privilege." It's far too valuable to give up. Think about that.
But as the class divide grows deeper, and more and more whites become impoverished, race may very well take a back seat, like in many parts of the UK.
Genetics do not explain it, nor is it simply bad sample groups, because there are groups of similar races genetically which consistently perform differently (for example african Americans and Somali immigrants (these are refugees not the elite who choose to migrate)). Culture, not genetics, is the segregating force which causes groups to outperform or underperform others. You would have a hard time today finding many people in America who think blacks are genetically inferior (that group of racists is aging fast and mostly died off) but you could find many who think they are culturally inferior. And I say that would end in a society which no longer keeps track of race.
But I still want to hear what you think can allow an underperforming group to progress.
There is very little genetic similarity between African Americans and Somalis. Indeed, it could be argued that African Americans are closer genetically to white Americans than they are to Somalis. As well, Somali immigrants in places like Maine and Minnesota don't perform much differently (in terms of academics, income, crime rates) than African Americans in similar places do.
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Think about that.