Lessons from the Germans.... (employment, wages, generation, illegal)

[itsjustmeagain]

Originally Posted by lucknow

When it comes to loving their country, Germans just don't talk the talk. They actually walk the walk and put their money where their mouths are. Over 80% of everything purchased in Germany is made in Germany. A typical German will pay more for made in Germany goods that imported things. That is what true patriotism is all about.

If Americans would follow suit and do the same I doubt there would be any unemployment at all in the country. I think the one thing above all else that is destroying the US economy is the importation of foreign goods. Both Canada and the USA really need to put tariffs on imports that reflect the difference in costs due to incomes for workers, environmental regulations and all the other factors that create a modern state.

Yep, Germans are pretty self-loathing considering patriotism. When you ask a German if he loves his country, he will mostly tell you, that they love their wife and their family but not their country. But they are proud of their Products and Prosperity. If Germans have the choice between a German car or for example an American car, they will always buy the German car.

[Mircea]

Originally Posted by ambient

Germany also has...

Comprehensive health care (oh no! how come they haven't all died??)

Which is an unfunded liability which they have no money to pay in the Future.

By 2020, the average EU country will need to raise the tax rate to 55 percent of national income to pay promised benefits.

■ By 2035, a tax rate of 57 percent will be required.
■ By 2050, the average EU country will need more than 60 percent of its GDP to fulfill its obligations.

ISBN #1-56808-197-9
www.ncpa.org/pub/st/st319/st319.pdf

At present, the US has massive unfunded liabilities in the form of Social Security and Medicare.

Why don't you figure out how you are going to fund those programs through 2085 -- without causing more job losses --- and then get back to us.

If you cannot handle reality or facts, they got pills for that.


Also, you lied by omission.....

Rationing exists when...

1] Scarcity of physical resources and a perceived need for their allocation
2] Waiting lists and long waiting times
3] Denial of treatment
4] Discrimination between patients regardless of need

Those definitions stem from....

Allocating resources when their supply is limited (EIU Healthcare International)

The displacement of the interests of one group of patients by another (Spiers, J., The Realities of Rationing: ‘Priority Setting’ in the NHS, London)

How many of a given intervention will be provided, to whom, at what cost, and under what circumstances (Rationing Health Care, Brit. Medical Bull. 51)

Die kuenstliche Verknappung eines durchaus vorhandenen Angebots --- The artificial curtailment of supply when it is actually available (Cueni, T., Rationalisieren oder Rationieren?)


Germany rations its health care.

I'll let the German Minister of Health explain it to you....since he's a "socialist"....

"In the past 20 years, our overriding philosophy has been that the health system cannot spend more than its income." -- Franz Knieps German Minister of Health (2009)

Virtual budgets are also set up at the regional levels; these ensure that all participants in the system—including the health insurance funds and providers— know from the beginning of the year onward how much money can be spent. -- Franz Knieps German Minister of Health (2009)

Originally Posted by ambient

A healthy middle class jobs structure that they protected from outsourcing to China and India (what a novel idea that no conservative has ever thought of)

Prove it. What specifically did Germany do?

German companies get "corporate welfare" to subsidize them, so that they don't go out of business.

Would you like me to dig up the posts where you whined and cried about "corporate welfare" or would you rather do the honors?

How much money does Germany spend on National Defense?

You think Germany has aircraft carriers?

Really?

The US must spend enormous amounts of money on Defense, because the US must protect the Petro-Dollar at all costs, but many States are all too happy to use the Euro....or the Ruble....or the Yuan.


"German family firms have led the country's export boom...."

The endangered public company: The big engine that couldn

Get it?

Many of you snivel and whine about corporations hoarding cash.

Yes, hoarding cash is a smart thing to do in times of economic volatility, since hoarded cash is the only way a publicly traded corporation can protect itself from being "Zenithed."

Zenith did not have an cash....because Zenith did not have any profits.....because Zenith could sell its products globally and make a profit......but the Korean Life's Good Corporation did have cash, because it had profits, because it could sell its products globally and make a profit...

....and LG Corporation used the profits it got to buy up all the stock in the Zenith Corporation and now former-Zenith employees are working at McDonald's and Wal-Mart.

Who still doesn't get it?

In addition to hoarding cash, what else have corporations been doing?

Buying up their own stocks.

Why would a corporation buy back its own stocks? Gosh, I don't know, but obviously that drives up the price of the stock, while simultaneously giving the corporation protect from an hostile take-over, leveraged buy-out or forced merger.

Who on this forum can cite a text-book example discussed widely in Economics at university?

KKR Kravitz versus Kroger's

KKR Kravitz were corporate raiders, they tried an hostile take-over of Kroger's, but Kroger's hoarded cash, and then used that massive amount of hoarded cash to stop the hostile take-over.

Many German --- and also French and Italian and Dutch --- companies are privately owned.....family owned.....they don't have stock, so they don't have to worry about being bought up and closed down by a foreign corporation, and the German government subsidizes them on top of that.

Geez, it's high-time some of you people take your first step into the world of Realityâ„¢.

Economically...

Mircea

[Grim Reader]

Originally Posted by Mircea

Which is an unfunded liability which they have no money to pay in the Future.

At least, it costs less than 2/3rds of US healthcare, and some years runs a surplus.

[color=darkred]

Originally Posted by Mircea;31858813[/COLOR

By 2020, the average EU country will need to raise the tax rate to 55 percent of national income to pay promised benefits.

And the 800 pound gorilla in benefits is pensions. As always. At least the effective healthcare system will keep them in the black for a while.

Originally Posted by Mircea;31858813Rationing exists when...

1

Scarcity of physical resources and a perceived need for their allocation
2] Waiting lists and long waiting times
3] Denial of treatment
4] Discrimination between patients regardless of need

Those definitions stem from....

Allocating resources when their supply is limited (EIU Healthcare International)

The displacement of the interests of one group of patients by another (Spiers, J., The Realities of Rationing: ‘Priority Setting’ in the NHS, London)

How many of a given intervention will be provided, to whom, at what cost, and under what circumstances (Rationing Health Care, Brit. Medical Bull. 51)

Die kuenstliche Verknappung eines durchaus vorhandenen Angebots --- The artificial curtailment of supply when it is actually available (Cueni, T., Rationalisieren oder Rationieren?)

Germany rations its health care.

Of course they do. Everyone does. Happily (for them) they do not ration it anywhere near as harsh as the US rationing!

Originally Posted by Mircea;31858813I'll let the German Minister of Health explain it to you....since he's a "socialist"....

[B

"In the past 20 years, our overriding philosophy has been that the health system cannot spend more than its income." -- [/b]Franz Knieps German Minister of Health (2009)

Virtual budgets are also set up at the regional levels; these ensure that all participants in the system—including the health insurance funds and providers— know from the beginning of the year onward how much money can be spent. -- Franz Knieps German Minister of Health (2009)

This. THIS! Right there, German healthcare takes the US system out behind the woodshed and beats it like a red-headed stepchild. Costs less than 66 % of the US system, covers 100 %, gets better results!

And they do that without spending more than their income!

That in itself is one of the most casual statements of superiority of one system over another I've ever seen.

[Goinback2011]

The REAL lessons to be learned from Germany occurred from 1918 to 1933. Actual history from this era isn't taught in the western world, so you have to seek it out yourself.

If Dems were smart and curious they could see what they're bringing on to themselves.

[katygirl68]

Originally Posted by ambient

Germany also has...

Comprehensive health care (oh no! how come they haven't all died??)

A healthy middle class jobs structure that they protected from outsourcing to China and India (what a novel idea that no conservative has ever thought of)


ohhhh but they're "socialist", so we can't possibly learn anything from them!

...or democrat! I recall the huge debate on NAFTA during the '90s, when the pompous a s s Al Gore and the media made Ross Perot look like a redneck idiot even though he was absolutely right. When did outsourcing really take off in the US? During the Clinton years. Remember how it was sold that we would do the brain work while the lower class workers in the third world would build things?

[no1brownsfan]

Originally Posted by katygirl68

...or democrat! I recall the huge debate on NAFTA during the '90s, when the pompous a s s Al Gore and the media made Ross Perot look like a redneck idiot even though he was absolutely right. When did outsourcing really take off in the US? During the Clinton years. Remember how it was sold that we would do the brain work while the lower class workers in the third world would build things?

Do you see a pattern here? Any honest politician such as Ross Perot, or Ron Paul who speaks the truth is labeled a kook and is thrown under the bus by the 2 corrupt main parties, and the lamestream media.


Do you hear that giant sucking sound?

[Rggr]

Originally Posted by Fiddlehead

While I do think we could learn from Germany (and probably many other countries), the truth is, they dodged the housing bubble. It was a disease of the Angophone world and its satellites. No one was flipping condos in Stuttgart like they were in Spain and Portugal.

You're right. They didn't dodge it by accident either. The German people tend to be more strictly adherent to basic financial principles and don't expect to get money quickly like that. As a result, their politicians are the same way both because that's a part of the culture and because being a part of the culture makes it a poor move politically.

[Packard fan]

Originally Posted by Fiddlehead

While I do think we could learn from Germany (and probably many other countries), the truth is, they dodged the housing bubble. It was a disease of the Angophone world and its satellites. No one was flipping condos in Stuttgart like they were in Spain and Portugal.

Spain and Portugal "Anglophone"? I don't think their language is English. LOL

Germany: they DON'T put a lot of their money into fighting wars or even keeping a big army in 2013; that money goes back into keeping their country repaired like roads, railroads and so on.

[ntwrkguy1]

Originally Posted by Grim Reader

At least, it costs less than 2/3rds of US healthcare, and some years runs a surplus.

[color=darkred]

And the 800 pound gorilla in benefits is pensions. As always. At least the effective healthcare system will keep them in the black for a while.



Of course they do. Everyone does. Happily (for them) they do not ration it anywhere near as harsh as the US rationing!



This. THIS! Right there, German healthcare takes the US system out behind the woodshed and beats it like a red-headed stepchild. Costs less than 66 % of the US system, covers 100 %, gets better results!

And they do that without spending more than their income!

That in itself is one of the most casual statements of superiority of one system over another I've ever seen.

A lot of this is possible because Germany is a largely homegeneous population of 82 million people (27% the size of the US), they don't have much of an issue with illegal immigrants, and they also don't have the issues that we have with prescription drug pricing.

But there are troubles on the horizon.....

"Inefficiency is as big a problem as injustice. Keeping Germany healthy is chronically expensive: this country has the fourth highest health expenses in the world and the compulsory individual fees, be they state or private, carry on rising faster than inflation."

How sick is Germany’s healthcare system? - The Local

[Hoonose]

Originally Posted by lucknow

When it comes to loving their country, Germans just don't talk the talk. They actually walk the walk and put their money where their mouths are. Over 80% of everything purchased in Germany is made in Germany. A typical German will pay more for made in Germany goods that imported things. That is what true patriotism is all about.

If Americans would follow suit and do the same I doubt there would be any unemployment at all in the country. I think the one thing above all else that is destroying the US economy is the importation of foreign goods. Both Canada and the USA really need to put tariffs on imports that reflect the difference in costs due to incomes for workers, environmental regulations and all the other factors that create a modern state.

Ah the difference sovereign vs non-sovereign currency. USA vs Germany. Germany as the manufacturer for the EU is in prime shape vs the PIIGS. Since the EU states cannot create currency they have to import EU to grow. And by not exporting EU for imports of course works in their favor as well. Perfect for Germany, but not so for the PIIGS. And why the EU is inherently unbalanced and weaker than the USA's political/monetary system.

For the USA to do the same, it would mean instant inflation. Goodbye Walmarts! Tariffs are a killer. Note Smoot-Hawley.

Smoot

Possibly and eventually better employment. But we could have it all with the right policies. We (not so simply) need to move the unemployed to other work. Or create useful work for them.

Several schools of economic thought dispute the common notion of imports weakening a country. Especially monetarily sovereign nations like the USA. Here we import Chinese stuff. And we get real stuff, real goods, in exchange for fiat, essentially drawn out of thin air.

For MMT see Mosler's Deadly Innocent Fraud #5:
http://moslereconomics.com/wp-conten...oints/7DIF.pdf

And for the Austrians see Hazlitt's 'Economics in One Lesson' at the end of Chapter 12 on Exports:
Economics in One Lesson: The Shortest and Surest Way to Understand Basic Economics: Henry Hazlitt: 9780517548233: Amazon.com: Books