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It is exactly those people like HeyJude and aus10 that ACA is designed to help.
Oh yeah... It's helped me out so much.... I was just fine with paying my own premiums. Now, not only are the premiums being raised, but so are the deductibles, co-pay's and total out-of pocket expenditures. I've seen what the "pools" were.. and it's even higher. That's a big reason why this isn't sustainable. There is absolutely nothing about this that will ever bring costs down. And if it gets to the point that I can't pay mine... you can darn well bet, I won't be going into those exchanges. I'll take the darn penalty.
Healthcare costs have been rising for quite awhile.... This didn't start with aca.....
But hey republicans, instead of telling folks what won't work, offer some solutions....
False. Cost pooling is a sure fire way to dramatically raise the cost and usage, since nobody's motivated to "save" since "saving" has no reward.
That's what deductibles are for. Also, cost pooling is the ONLY way for any ordinary person to afford a $50K surgery.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pnwmdk
This, too, is totally false.
It's false that everyone will be in the healthcare market at some point? What planet do you live on? If it's so false, then tell me: what are you going to do if you get cancer or heart disease one day?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pnwmdk
The false premise, is that there should BE ANY RISK TO SOCIETY, no matter WHAT someone does in regards to insurance. So, again, your argument is false.
So what are you saying, that the person with no insurance is going to get lots of care at the ER they can't afford...and no one will pay for it? It doesn't take a genius to determine that if someone is getting care for free, then it is a financial risk to society.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pnwmdk
Individuals ration their own. This is the ONLY moral and respectful way. Any other way is the imposition of political goals to remove personal choices. You demand "choice" as far as killing a baby is concerned, but demand "choice" be done away with when it comes to insurance. So far, you're 1.000 for 'expediency' and .000 for reason and wisdom.
When the insurance company denies your claim or says you can only have procedure X after jumping through hoops A, B, and C to satisfy their inquiries...what do you think they are doing? They're rationing your care! They have an incentive to collect as much as possible in premiums and pay as little as possible out in claims. And it's not so easy to jump to another plan, especially if you're tied to an employer and you have pre-existing conditions or a current acute health need. Also, this is not a thread about abortion.
Again, EVERY system rations healthcare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pnwmdk
IIn summary, your argument is 100% radical ideology, and 0% reason.
In summary, saying "FALSE" with no backup to things that are obvious to everyone as true is pretty stupid. You don't seem to even understand how health insurance even works. But it's not surprising.
1. No one can actually pay for their healthcare out of pocket, particularly when it gets serious. So it's stupid to pretend like you're shouldering your full burden when you're not.
Are you kidding??
I've been paying 100% out of pocket since 2007. UNLESS something major happens (very slim chance in any given year, especially for someone relatively young [I'm 42]), it's MUCH cheaper to pay for things out of pocket than to pay an insurance premium every month.
Even the catastrophic only plans (which are not O'care compliant) would cost me more every year than what I spend on health care, and it's not as if I never see a doctor. Just in the last year, I've had dental work done, had to be sewn up when my hand caught a tooth while playing with my dog and have had a few other things to deal with, and all of that combined wouldn't have even covered the deductible on the cheapest O'care plan available to me, which wouldn't even have covered the dental.
My plan was to focus on building my business and then get catastrophic coverage once we were making enough to afford it. We're about at that point now, and all of the sudden I have to pay for acupuncture coverage (which I don't want), vision coverage for children and "well baby visits and care" (I don't have any kids), maternity care (uh, I'm a guy!), substance abuse services (don't/won't need/want), etc.
Obamacare is labeled the "Affordable Care Act." There are a few demographics this thing might make insurance (note the distinction between insurance and care - they are NOT interchangeable terms, regardless of what Obama & the Democrats want you to believe) more affordable for, but the bulk of the country is made up of middle class families, and this law makes insurance MUCH more expensive for them. There's nothing remarkable or unusual about me, as an insurance purchaser - I'm a pretty typical middle class American - and look at what it's done just to my insurance options. I can only imagine what it's doing to the pocketbook of those with families...
And don't get me started on small business coverage. I looked it up to see what it would cost to provide insurance through my company, and it's INSANE. With the business paying for half the premium (at least 50% employer responsibility is required), the cost to each employee would be more than TWICE as much as me buying it on my own. In other words, the cost roughly QUADRUPLES. So much for "affordable," eh?
I've been paying 100% out of pocket since 2007. UNLESS something major happens (very slim chance in any given year, especially for someone relatively young [I'm 42]), it's MUCH cheaper to pay for things out of pocket than to pay an insurance premium every month.
And when you get cancer or heart disease and need massive life-saving surgery, you're going to pay that $100K+ hospital bill out of pocket?
And you think that when people get prescription drugs that cost thousands a month, everyone can pay for that straight out of pocket?
The fact of the matter is liberals and democrats think everyone should want to pay their way through life and don't dare say a thing about getting robed.
Fact is that if something happens to you, you're going to NEED other healthy insurance policy holders to pay for your care. I bet you don't have tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars just lying around to pay for that hospital stay out of pocket.
This seems to be the strangest fantasy conservatives believe in: that they actually consistently carry their own cost burden for their healthcare.
Location: Just transplanted to FL from the N GA mountains
3,997 posts, read 4,142,400 times
Reputation: 2677
Quote:
Originally Posted by swagger
Are you kidding??
I've been paying 100% out of pocket since 2007. UNLESS something major happens (very slim chance in any given year, especially for someone relatively young [I'm 42]), it's MUCH cheaper to pay for things out of pocket than to pay an insurance premium every month.
Even the catastrophic only plans (which are not O'care compliant) would cost me more every year than what I spend on health care, and it's not as if I never see a doctor. Just in the last year, I've had dental work done, had to be sewn up when my hand caught a tooth while playing with my dog and have had a few other things to deal with, and all of that combined wouldn't have even covered the deductible on the cheapest O'care plan available to me, which wouldn't even have covered the dental.
My plan was to focus on building my business and then get catastrophic coverage once we were making enough to afford it. We're about at that point now, and all of the sudden I have to pay for acupuncture coverage (which I don't want), vision coverage for children and "well baby visits and care" (I don't have any kids), maternity care (uh, I'm a guy!), substance abuse services (don't/won't need/want), etc.
Obamacare is labeled the "Affordable Care Act." There are a few demographics this thing might make insurance (note the distinction between insurance and care - they are NOT interchangeable terms, regardless of what Obama & the Democrats want you to believe) more affordable for, but the bulk of the country is made up of middle class families, and this law makes insurance MUCH more expensive for them. There's nothing remarkable or unusual about me, as an insurance purchaser - I'm a pretty typical middle class American - and look at what it's done just to my insurance options. I can only imagine what it's doing to the pocketbook of those with families...
And don't get me started on small business coverage. I looked it up to see what it would cost to provide insurance through my company, and it's INSANE. With the business paying for half the premium (at least 50% employer responsibility is required), the cost to each employee would be more than TWICE as much as me buying it on my own. In other words, the cost roughly QUADRUPLES. So much for "affordable," eh?
Thank you! Well put! I'm not going to pay close to 11K per year for maternity benefits and other things I don't need (as it stands now, I have the option not to have that in my policy!) If at my age, I found out I was pregnant there would be no need to have health insurance because I'd probably die from shock. Either that or a surgeon has some explaining to do why the voluntary sterilization didn't work years ago. So yep.. if it gets to the point that I simply cannot afford insurance, I guess I'll take my chances. We'll have no other option.
The total is not even 5% of the population. So 95% of the American population will NOT get cancer, heart disease, or suffer a heart attack. Stop acting like everyone is going to fall over dead without the ACA because of cancer or heart attack. The argument is ridiculous.
Thank you! Well put! I'm not going to pay close to 11K per year for maternity benefits and other things I don't need (as it stands now, I have the option not to have that in my policy!) If at my age, I found out I was pregnant there would be no need to have health insurance because I'd probably die from shock. Either that or a surgeon has some explaining to do why the voluntary sterilization didn't work years ago. So yep.. if it gets to the point that I simply cannot afford insurance, I guess I'll take my chances. We'll have no other option.
The sad truth is, you will have other options. But you are so set against taking them that you will be choosing not to avail yourself of them on principle. I don't wish anything bad on you, but the chances of you needing healthcare at some point in your life are pretty good. Why you would choose to take that kind of risk when you don't have to is something I don't understand.
Location: Just transplanted to FL from the N GA mountains
3,997 posts, read 4,142,400 times
Reputation: 2677
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeyJude514
The sad truth is, you will have other options. But you are so set against taking them that you will be choosing not to avail yourself of them on principle. I don't wish anything bad on you, but the chances of you needing healthcare at some point in your life are pretty good. Why you would choose to take that kind of risk when you don't have to is something I don't understand.
People don't fall into a one-size fits all category. Some of us work. We'll make to much to get the subsidies. But.. we do make enough to be able to purchase our own health insurance. It's a stretch but very do able. So when our rates get so high, that we can no longer afford it... just what the hell are we expected to do? The exchange rates are high as well. There is NOTHING affordable about this. Now.. sure... if rates were to go down it might be one thing.... but you and I both know... It's never gonna happen!!!!
People who have had insurance are going to lose it. Plain and simple. People who have not that get the subsidies... yes... they'll have it finally. Am I supposed to be happy that they will finally have insurance... sure... but it's going to be at a lot of other people's expense.
The politicians are playing a chess game with our health care and there are going to be winners and losers in this game... We're all being FORCED to play the game, with the government as the referee. I'm too old and tired to play the game anymore. I quit.
The total is not even 5% of the population. So 95% of the American population will NOT get cancer, heart disease, or suffer a heart attack. Stop acting like everyone is going to fall over dead without the ACA because of cancer or heart attack. The argument is ridiculous.
That is a diagnosis in any given year. Almost 3 years post cancer-diagnosis, I am still getting extensive medical treatment. For some people (i.e. leukemias), it can be 2 years of chemo alone.
And let's look at everything else? 1.5 million people will be injured in car accidents this year, and more than 200,000 people will die. Not all injuries in accidents are serious, but they can be. Almost 800,000 people will have a stroke. More than 20 million people (nearly 1 in 10) in the US has some level of kidney disease - and a good number will go on to needing transplant or dialysis. 25.8 million Americans (including children) have Type 1 or Type 2 diabetes. That's over 8% of the population.
In fact, it's estimated that close to 45% of Americans are dealing with some form of chronic disease. Some of these issues are self inflicted (i.e. from drinking or obesity), but certainly not all. Not all require constant care, but certainly some do. And most mean that they could not buy health insurance on the private market due to preexisting conditions. If you don't believe me on the figures, do you believe the CDC? CDC - Chronic Disease - Overview
I repeat, just because you don't have something today, or even this year, doesn't mean you won't get it. I never in a million years would have thought that I would get stage IV cancer right after my 23rd birthday with no family history, a fairly healthy lifestyle, and age on my side.
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If it's so false, then tell me: what are you going to do if you get cancer or heart disease one day? 
They're rationing your care! They have an incentive to collect as much as possible in premiums and pay as little as possible out in claims. And it's not so easy to jump to another plan, especially if you're tied to an employer and you have pre-existing conditions or a current acute health need. Also, this is not a thread about abortion.
