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Old 11-20-2007, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Arizona
5,396 posts, read 7,070,141 times
Reputation: 1197

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta Planter View Post
Why can you not help them? Better question would be: How can you help them? And what's the anti-constitutional crapola, what are you yapping about? And who is "they"? The recruiters? They, the recruiters, are just doing their jobs, man.

I agree with all the others herein, including you, sir. I never got a reenlistment bonus in 20+ years, but I didn't go to war, either. I'll support the rep on his bill, I'll contact my reps round here. I'm a veteran, as well.

sorry, the "anti-constitutional" crapola was a tie in to another thread.

Yes, doing their jobs, like used car salesmen. But no, I was not referring specifically to the recruiters. I understand they have a job to do, as unsavory as that may be in these times. I was referring to the greater military bureacracy that treats human beings like garbage. And I was referring to a government that allows our vets to be treated like garbage.
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Old 11-20-2007, 11:54 AM
 
394 posts, read 205,526 times
Reputation: 58
why arent the oil and defense companies who have made billions of dollars off of this war being taxed more to help support these soldiers
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Old 11-20-2007, 12:21 PM
 
Location: Alvarado, TX
2,914 posts, read 4,253,861 times
Reputation: 794
Quote:
Originally Posted by bily4 View Post
sorry, the "anti-constitutional" crapola was a tie in to another thread.

Yes, doing their jobs, like used car salesmen. But no, I was not referring specifically to the recruiters. I understand they have a job to do, as unsavory as that may be in these times. I was referring to the greater military bureacracy that treats human beings like garbage. And I was referring to a government that allows our vets to be treated like garbage.
Oh, okay on the first statement.

However, using a statement like "the greater military bureaucracy" means, what? I don't understand your statement, either, that tgmb "treats human beings like garbage". Did you go through boot camp, sir? Do you know why there is even a boot camp? The main and basic focal point for boot camp is to tear down an already somewhat "structured" lifestyle and reform it to a military lifestyle, so that each soldier/sailor/airman/marine will cover his buddy's back and vice versa.

"A government that allows our vets to be treated like garbage." Could you, would you please clarify that statement? Any VA hospital I've ever been in treats the vets better in most cases than the military.
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Old 11-20-2007, 12:22 PM
 
Location: Alvarado, TX
2,914 posts, read 4,253,861 times
Reputation: 794
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Hey guys, I googled for this because it sounded a little odd.

Yes, this did happen with some guys but apparently this is not supposed to be happening and the policy is no longer in force.
Could you/would you elaborate on this a bit, sir? I'm interested.
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Old 11-20-2007, 12:34 PM
 
Location: Arizona
5,396 posts, read 7,070,141 times
Reputation: 1197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta Planter View Post
Oh, okay on the first statement.

However, using a statement like "the greater military bureaucracy" means, what? I don't understand your statement, either, that tgmb "treats human beings like garbage". Did you go through boot camp, sir? Do you know why there is even a boot camp? The main and basic focal point for boot camp is to tear down an already somewhat "structured" lifestyle and reform it to a military lifestyle, so that each soldier/sailor/airman/marine will cover his buddy's back and vice versa.

"A government that allows our vets to be treated like garbage." Could you, would you please clarify that statement? Any VA hospital I've ever been in treats the vets better in most cases than the military.
You can see the link at the beginning of this thread for starters.

According to military mental health experts,
if current trends continue, over 75 percent of
Soldiers and Marines in Iraq will be in a situation
where they could be seriously injured or killed.
Nearly two-thirds of them will know someone
seriously injured or killed.7 Thirty percent of
Soldiers and Marines in high combat situations
(those who spend over 56 percent of their time
off base8) will develop a mental health problem,
such as depression or post-traumatic stress
disorder (PTSD)9 ; for members of the National
Guard, the rate rises to 49 percent.10
A crisis in the DoD mental health treatment
system compounds these problems. Given the
lack of qualified mental health practitioners, the
high rates of mental health problems among
returning troops, and the effects of stigma within
the military, the DoD Task Force on Mental
Health has stated: “The psychological health
needs of service members, their families and
their survivors are daunting and growing.”11
The shameful situation is obvious once service
members return home since most military mental
health professionals are deployed overseas. In
other words, after service members come home,
the time when many mental health wounds are
manifested, wounded service members have
few professionals available for them to turn to for
professional assistance.

http://www.veteransforamerica.org/wp...nds-report.pdf
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Old 11-20-2007, 12:36 PM
 
Location: The Lakes Region
3,074 posts, read 4,102,145 times
Reputation: 2344
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta Planter View Post
Oh, okay on the first statement.

However, using a statement like "the greater military bureaucracy" means, what? I don't understand your statement, either, that tgmb "treats human beings like garbage". Did you go through boot camp, sir? Do you know why there is even a boot camp? The main and basic focal point for boot camp is to tear down an already somewhat "structured" lifestyle and reform it to a military lifestyle, so that each soldier/sailor/airman/marine will cover his buddy's back and vice versa.

"A government that allows our vets to be treated like garbage." Could you, would you please clarify that statement? Any VA hospital I've ever been in treats the vets better in most cases than the military.
You are right about the VA, in my opinion they do pretty well given that for
the last 19 years Congress approves their budget either late or piecemeal.
How can you plan effective health care when you don't know when and how much money you will get for staffing, supplies etc. until the last minute.
Congress has ignored pleas of the DAV and other vet groups to authorize automatic budget payments to the VA because they don't want to short
any of their pet projects like the $1 million Woodstock Memorial Grant. They
don't believe we are watching them but we are and we just need to let
them know it at the ballot box. And I am a fellow vet.
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Old 11-20-2007, 01:24 PM
 
11,127 posts, read 12,681,162 times
Reputation: 3676
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta Planter View Post
"A government that allows our vets to be treated like garbage." Could you, would you please clarify that statement? Any VA hospital I've ever been in treats the vets better in most cases than the military.
I realize that you were not addressing me but it is also why I added the part at the end making reference to location. I have no doubts that there are some really good VA hospitals and facilities around the country but there are also some pretty horrid ones as well. One of the ones that comes to mind is the VA in Tampa, Florida which has been plagued by corruption, theft, cronysim, and mismanagement for years at the expense of its treatment of veterans. In the case of the VA in Tampa, it is very well documented and the last I heard was that changes were in order but most vets were still waiting.
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Old 11-20-2007, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Alvarado, TX
2,914 posts, read 4,253,861 times
Reputation: 794
Quote:
Originally Posted by TnHilltopper View Post
I realize that you were not addressing me but it is also why I added the part at the end making reference to location. I have no doubts that there are some really good VA hospitals and facilities around the country but there are also some pretty horrid ones as well. One of the ones that comes to mind is the VA in Tampa, Florida which has been plagued by corruption, theft, cronysim, and mismanagement for years at the expense of its treatment of veterans. In the case of the VA in Tampa, it is very well documented and the last I heard was that changes were in order but most vets were still waiting.
I'm reading at the moment your link, and also the pdf link. I've heard a lot about Tampa, yes. My apologies if I've offended anyone.
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Old 11-20-2007, 02:02 PM
 
11,127 posts, read 12,681,162 times
Reputation: 3676
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta Planter View Post
I'm reading at the moment your link, and also the pdf link. I've heard a lot about Tampa, yes. My apologies if I've offended anyone.
No offense taken, heck, I am very rarely offended by anything.

I recall the hospital itself was not too bad but the off site facilities were God awful and the former director was indicted on a plethora of various corruption related charges.

I figure that regardless of peoples political views or what they think of the war, those who go and fight these wars should never have to worry about how they will be cared for when it is all said and done. It is the one aspect of government spending I have no qualms with and will share the last dollar to my name to do so.
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Old 11-20-2007, 02:43 PM
 
51,940 posts, read 41,806,773 times
Reputation: 32402
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta Planter View Post
Could you/would you elaborate on this a bit, sir? I'm interested.
There were several articles I found on this topic when I googled this. I would recommend you doing the same as this kinda screams internet hoax. (It isnt but it is a little bit of garbage journalism)

Basically, one was an article from 3 years ago that read the exact same way as this article so this is not a new finding. I then saw an article where a general said this was a mistake and that the soldiers wouldn't have to actually pay. I also saw an article talking about the GAO giving examples of screw ups like declaring someone dead or awol who wasnt that screwed up their credit etc etc etc.

So, in short....I don't think we are really getting the full story on some of these. Yes, it's outrageous but it seems to be that the end result is that this guy won't actually have to pay it back once things get sorted out.

This article reminds me of news stories where a little old lady on social security gets a $300,000 water bill because they read her meter wrong. Yes, she got a bill....but no.....she shouldn't have....and it will get sorted out.

Does this answer your question?
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