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Old 10-29-2013, 09:41 AM
 
9,243 posts, read 7,367,942 times
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Should the U.S do the same? Imagine that your great grandfather or great grandmother was an undocumented Irish immigrant who came to America. Maybe he stowed himself in the belly of a cargo ship between sacks of flour dreaming of the Statue of Liberty. Maybe she came to visit a friend in Boston but stayed forever....Now imagine that the United States passed a law today retroactive to the 1920s decreeing that due to the migratory status of a family member two generations ago who you never met, you are not a U.S. citizen and have no nationality...So it is in the Dominican Republic, where nearly two hundred thousand people will be rendered without citizenship of any nation due to a baffling ruling by the Constitutional Court last week. The court ruling, which cannot be appealed, states that children of undocumented Haitian migrants, even those born in the Dominican Republic more than eighty years ago, are no longer entitled to the citizenship previously afforded them (For some reason the quote & link option is not working) So here is the link to story. Dominicans Retroactively Robbed of Citizenship | The National Interest Blog
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Old 10-29-2013, 02:10 PM
 
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Yes the US should and it wouldn't matter if you were born in the US because you would still have birth citizenship. Those committing fraud should be stripped of US citizenship when the fraud is discovered.
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Old 10-29-2013, 06:46 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 13,021,541 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by All American NYC View Post
Should the U.S do the same? Imagine that your great grandfather or great grandmother was an undocumented Irish immigrant who came to America. Maybe he stowed himself in the belly of a cargo ship between sacks of flour dreaming of the Statue of Liberty. Maybe she came to visit a friend in Boston but stayed forever....Now imagine that the United States passed a law today retroactive to the 1920s decreeing that due to the migratory status of a family member two generations ago who you never met, you are not a U.S. citizen and have no nationality...So it is in the Dominican Republic, where nearly two hundred thousand people will be rendered without citizenship of any nation due to a baffling ruling by the Constitutional Court last week. The court ruling, which cannot be appealed, states that children of undocumented Haitian migrants, even those born in the Dominican Republic more than eighty years ago, are no longer entitled to the citizenship previously afforded them (For some reason the quote & link option is not working) So here is the link to story. Dominicans Retroactively Robbed of Citizenship | The National Interest Blog
That's going too far yanking the citizenship of kids BORN in the DR who were "legal" at the time and I def have the rep of being AGAINST illegal aliens and amnesty for their kind.
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Old 10-30-2013, 01:08 AM
 
32,497 posts, read 26,381,433 times
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in the US such a law would be ruled unconstitutional and struck down in each court.
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Old 10-30-2013, 09:15 AM
 
Location: Ohio
19,949 posts, read 14,256,616 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by All American NYC View Post
Should the U.S do the same?
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by All American NYC View Post
Imagine that your great grandfather or great grandmother was an undocumented Irish immigrant who came to America. Maybe he stowed himself in the belly of a cargo ship between sacks of flour dreaming of the Statue of Liberty. Maybe she came to visit a friend in Boston but stayed forever....Now imagine that the United States passed a law today retroactive to the 1920s decreeing that due to the migratory status of a family member two generations ago who you never met, you are not a U.S. citizen and have no nationality...So it is in the Dominican Republic, where nearly two hundred thousand people will be rendered without citizenship of any nation due to a baffling ruling by the Constitutional Court last week. The court ruling, which cannot be appealed, states that children of undocumented Haitian migrants, even those born in the Dominican Republic more than eighty years ago, are no longer entitled to the citizenship previously afforded them (For some reason the quote & link option is not working) So here is the link to story. Dominicans Retroactively Robbed of Citizenship | The National Interest Blog
And it is baffling in what way?

Look, not everyone understands legal theories, doctrines and jurisprudence, but it is not Quantum Physics, and its based on Common Sense.

There are two legal doctrines at work here...

1] Statute of Limitations. It is generally accepted in International Law, and it is a corner-stone of law in nearly all Western 1st World States that the Statute of Limitations for Fraud starts if and only if the Fraud is discovered.

The concept is "Tolling" for anyone who wants to look it up. When you commit any Fraud, and there are different levels of Fraud --- including Fraudulent Misrepresentation--- the Statute of Limitations is automatically tolled until such time as the Fraud is discovered.

I would direct you to case law in the united States, where people have lost their homes due to Fraudulent Conveyance, even though the Fraud took place in 19th Century. That is the function and purpose of Title Companies, to check the title for possible Fraudulent Conveyance.

"Well, those people are innocent victims and shouldn't lose their homes."

Sorry, no one can profit, benefit or gain from any criminal act.

2] and I just covered another doctrine. People who entered the Dominican Republic on Fraudulent terms have committed a Felony Offense, and by law, the Statute of Limitations does not begin to run until the Fraud is discovered.


Putting those two together, it is not even remotely baffling.

Enter the US under fraudulent pretenses and your Visa will be revoked, or your Green Card will be revoked, or if you became a Naturalized Citizen, your citizenship will be revoked, and in all cases you get deported.

Thousands and thousands have been been stripped of their legal immigrant status or US citizenship and deported over the years.

There is nothing in the US Constitution that expressly states that Citizenship is permanent -- meaning your citizenship can be revoked or stripped.

Legally...

Mircea
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Old 10-30-2013, 09:41 AM
 
15,489 posts, read 7,900,314 times
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I read about this a couple weeks ago.

No the US shouldn't do the same thing. It is a ridiculous ruling. If anything, if the US did such a thing, we should aim it primarily at people of DR descent. Many Dominicans here in the US support their families back home and sending them back to the DR would cause economic issues there.

FWIW, I will never travel to DR again for leisure due to this ruling. I could see it being passed for 2013 going forward, similar to what was done in Ireland, but to go back 3-4 generations is just racist and stupid IMO.
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Old 10-30-2013, 10:27 AM
 
2,541 posts, read 2,158,176 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007 View Post
FWIW, I will never travel to DR again for leisure due to this ruling. I could see it being passed for 2013 going forward, similar to what was done in Ireland, but to go back 3-4 generations is just racist and stupid IMO.
Indeed, it's bizarre how awfully racist the people in the Dominican Republic are, especially when you consider that that country is EASILY the blackest country in Latin America.
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Old 10-30-2013, 10:52 AM
 
Location: USA
19,844 posts, read 14,730,278 times
Reputation: 12789
It's there law and none of our business.
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Old 10-30-2013, 11:39 AM
 
Location: Jamestown, NY
7,841 posts, read 7,339,474 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Yes.



And it is baffling in what way?

Look, not everyone understands legal theories, doctrines and jurisprudence, but it is not Quantum Physics, and its based on Common Sense.

There are two legal doctrines at work here...

1] Statute of Limitations. It is generally accepted in International Law, and it is a corner-stone of law in nearly all Western 1st World States that the Statute of Limitations for Fraud starts if and only if the Fraud is discovered.

The concept is "Tolling" for anyone who wants to look it up. When you commit any Fraud, and there are different levels of Fraud --- including Fraudulent Misrepresentation--- the Statute of Limitations is automatically tolled until such time as the Fraud is discovered.

I would direct you to case law in the united States, where people have lost their homes due to Fraudulent Conveyance, even though the Fraud took place in 19th Century. That is the function and purpose of Title Companies, to check the title for possible Fraudulent Conveyance.

"Well, those people are innocent victims and shouldn't lose their homes."

Sorry, no one can profit, benefit or gain from any criminal act.

2] and I just covered another doctrine. People who entered the Dominican Republic on Fraudulent terms have committed a Felony Offense, and by law, the Statute of Limitations does not begin to run until the Fraud is discovered.


Putting those two together, it is not even remotely baffling.

Enter the US under fraudulent pretenses and your Visa will be revoked, or your Green Card will be revoked, or if you became a Naturalized Citizen, your citizenship will be revoked, and in all cases you get deported.

Thousands and thousands have been been stripped of their legal immigrant status or US citizenship and deported over the years.

There is nothing in the US Constitution that expressly states that Citizenship is permanent -- meaning your citizenship can be revoked or stripped.

Legally...

Mircea
Yeah, you're right ... it's NOT Quantum Physics ...

Article I, Section 9 of the Constitution of the United States:

Quote:
No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.
Amendment 14, Section 1 of the Constitution of the United States:

Quote:
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.
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Old 10-30-2013, 03:23 PM
 
Location: USA
19,844 posts, read 14,730,278 times
Reputation: 12789
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda_d View Post
Yeah, you're right ... it's NOT Quantum Physics ...

Article I, Section 9 of the Constitution of the United States:


Amendment 14, Section 1 of the Constitution of the United States:
Good find. Many people think that what they think is fair is right.
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