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Tell that to the French who pay the 75% marginal rate and a 45% inheritance tax (higher if it's not inherited by a spouse/child).
Since when does the U.S. not have an inheritance tax?
Facts matter. The U.S. has a progressive tax system. European social democracy countries have more social programs, national healthcare, all while having REGRESSIVE tax systems.
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What's funny is your use of pseudo-science to try and tie that (not that I ever put much stock in IQ tests to begin with) to social welfare programs.
Not my concept. You didn't read the article or the study.
Any time a natural outcome is altered, there are consequences.
So you are against making the very same people who have profited greatly over the past 8-12 years which created such a disparity in wealth in this country that has never been seen before give back through healthcare reforms? Many of these multi-millionaires got there form the sweat and tears of the very same people that many conservatives despise. I do to some extent understand what you are saying but at the same time I realize that something has to be done regarding how we as a country treat the bottom rung of society.
No ... I'm against felonious stupidity, and if your comments don't qualify for that distinction, they are real close.
The first and most obvious error in your statement suggests that this atrocious plan only targets the very wealthy, when nothing could be further from the truth. It affects almost everyone, and particularly those who can least afford another drain on their already tight finances. The school teacher and the plumber and the bus driver and all the other working class folks will feel the pinch. Those multimillionaires couldn't care less about a modest increase in their health insurance bill, because to them, a $1000 is pocket change. They won't even notice.. But I've got even worse news to break to you ... It's those wealthy people you seem to despise so much that OWN and INVEST in those insurance companies, and pharmaceutical companies who stand to make 10, 50, 100, or perhaps 1000 times the amount of whatever modest increase in cost for there individual healthcare plan. They will in fact be the greatest benificiaries of this plan to allegedly help the poor.
This is how the real world works, which you are obviously not very familiar with.
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Originally Posted by simetime
It just seems like the "new republicans" campaigned on stopping a law that has already been passed and in the process shut down the government and rejoice in it and than blame the president for not giving in to their demands to repeal the law that had things in it that the "real republicans" agreed upon. Instead of coming together to fix it the flaws in the system, they rather take it apart with no clear replacement for it just to make the president look bad.
Obama needs no help from the republicans, as he does a fine job making himself look bad without assistance.
Be that as it may, I'm not sure who you are referring to as "real" republicans? Do you mean the ones behaving and voting like democrats? If so, I suggest that they are not real republicans at all .... ,they are referred to as RINOS. The real republicans for which one can count on one hand, oppose this monstrosity because it is an unmitigated disaster, and an assault on American liberty, and the legitimate rule of law.
And before I forget ... let me suggest to you that if you really dislike millionaires so much, you might want to direct your ire toward those bribe taking, miscreant ner do well millionaire congress critters that just jammed this plan up your yoo hoo, while EXEMPTING THEMSELVES from it!!!
Or you can continue to foolishly cheer for these dastardly hypocrites, as they lie, cheat and rob you purple
Since when does the U.S. not have an inheritance tax?
Facts matter. The U.S. has a progressive tax system. European social democracy countries have more social programs, national healthcare, all while having REGRESSIVE tax systems.
Oh yes, your graph. France has a progressive and regressive tax structure. There is progressive taxation and regressive taxation.
Not my concept. You didn't read the article or the study.
Any time a natural outcome is altered, there are consequences.
Actually, I did read the article, it was amusing. And you're the one that tied the lowering of IQ to social welfare programs.
Anyone who actually believes this is blinded by the duplicitous spin that paints Obama, Holder and Reid as having moral superiority/integrity. IRS scandal and Benghazi--Obama has yet to accept responsibility for these. If they had happened under a conservative, hysterical liberals would have been demanding an impeachment hearing. Lying in order to pass Obamacare which forces Americans to give up their ability to choose what is best for themselves is fraud, plain and simple.
Obama is a manipulative con artist, a narcissist, and a fraud. And he doesn't even have the grace to pretend that he considers others' perspectives. He truly believes he's untouchable.
I suppose you can start by asking yourself "what would jesus" do to determine what is more or not.... I doubt jesus would be a conservative .... remember, he ate with leppers, prostitutes and fed the poor.
And when you come across claiming that Liberals don't pay taxes you come across as arrogant, crass.. self agrandizing... and loose relevance.. actually conservatism is starting to become irrelevent in the scheme of the national conversation... evident by how loud adn kicking and screaming they are on these boards...
No. Not "And". The appraisal by the previous poster was nothing by right-wing balderdash, so "And" isn't the correct word... perhaps "Rather" would work better. Your point is well-made, though: The charges that strike a nerve most acutely with right-wingers are those that are most accurate and most damning: Self-centeredness (as a core value), egoistic avarice, etc. To be fair though: There are three kinds of right-wingers on these boards: There is a small contingent of folks who know what they're proposing is self-serving and antisocial, and have the honor and integrity to be upfront about it, defending it by claiming what is effectively today's version of the feudal right of conquest. The vast majority of right-wingers work to wrap the offensive intentions of their partisan perspective in deceptions, refusing to directly address the moral repudiation because they know in their hearts that what they support is morally wrong, and therefore they realize they must defend their self-serving approach by deflection. Then there is another small contingent at the most extreme fringe of the right, exhibiting the vacuous and childish behaviors that only the deepest self-aggrandizing petulance brings out.
Of course, the right-wing has their own characterizations of liberals, but for some reason liberals don't get that upset about being accused of being excessively compassionate and excessively empathetic.
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Originally Posted by Proud2beAMom
it' plain common sense.. Repulican policies have done NOTHING to further cause of the middle class.... THAT is evident in the income gap in the U.S
Specifically how worker wages have remained pretty flat since the mid-1970s (and have actually declined, in real terms, over the last decade) while productivity leading to profit has continued to climb precipitously all the way through. The right-wing sycophants' rich masters have driven a doubling of economic injustice in a generation, and are working to double economic injustice again.
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Originally Posted by Proud2beAMom
It is evident that on a national scale.. Republicans are loosing.. because ultimately they don't serve the best interest of the majority of the American public..
Indeed: Serving the best interest of the masses is precisely antithetical to the right-wing intention. The point of doubling economic injustice in a generation is to concentrate the wealth that the nation generates into a small number of hands, even though the generation of that wealth is dependent on the work of all its people and the capitalization of the resources of the nation itself as much as on the investment of capital by the rich. It used to be that the investors took their third share and the system was in balance, but the corrupt self-centereness of the right-wing has brought about a radical redistribution: The wealth that rightfully had been reflected in wages for workers and investment in the infrastructure of the nation has been (using the right-wing's own parlance, though this time, accurate) "stolen" by the right, and the right-wing sycophants just abide their masters' exploitation, because their masters give them bigger scraps off the table than is available to those most vulnerable in society.
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Originally Posted by Tassy001
They will not see any subsidy until tax time.
False. How many more lies will you tell before you learn about what you're talking about before posting?
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Originally Posted by Proud2beAMom
Scaring people about high deductibles is insane.
No it isn't. As you've rightfully pointed out, there is no way to prevail on the merits, so right-wing success is reliant on such deceptions of prospective sycophants.
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Originally Posted by GuyNTexas
Based on my observations, the liberal understands NOTHING.
No doubt a defense mechanism against having to face the moral repudiation of what you personally prefer.
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Originally Posted by GuyNTexas
While it is admirable to want everyone to has access to healthcare, what becomes lost in the quest to facilitate that outcome is that your tactics and efforts will produce the opposite result.
A claim belied by the fact that the right-wing has had twenty years to put in place a superior reform that would have made ACA unnecessary, and not only hasn't done so, but actually proposed one and subsequently proceeded to try to repeal it 40+ times after it became the law of the land. There is no escaping the fact that right-wing support for affordable access to healthcare for all is a lie - a cynical deception attempting to dupe weak-minded people into waiting (perhaps another twenty years and then another twenty years) for economic injustice to be addressed, while the right-wing sycophants' masters (using the right-wing's own parlance, though this time, accurate) "steal" more of the nation's wealth for themselves instead allowing the fair and just balance of the previous generation to be restored.
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Originally Posted by GuyNTexas
Time to wake up Dorothy, we aren't in Kansas any longer. But do take a gander at that man behind the curtain... Things aren't as they may appear on the surface.
Do you think people reading your words are stupid enough to realize that your spewage was nothing but a distraction, with absolutely no indication whatsoever how your inane nonsense would assure affordable healthcare for everybody better than ACA does? Do you think because you type a whole bunch of self-serving claptrap that it exempts your ideas from the moral scrutiny of what they would bring about, the leaving of those with preexisting conditions and those who exceed lifetime caps to "die in the streets"; "throwing off the cliff" those most vulnerable in society, because being socially conscience would depress the comfort and luxury of those more affluent? Don't you realize that the only legitimate way to escape the moral repudiation of what you support is to actually propose changes that better serve the needs of those most vulnerable in society, right now, without excuses or equivocations, rather than better serve your own personal discretionary spending?
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Originally Posted by Proud2beAMom
You loose me on the first sentence.. anyone who compares cars or discretionary items like that to healthcare is really out in .. well in this case right field.
Such distractions and deflections are fundamental to the confidence trick that the right-wing seeks to perform.
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Originally Posted by Proud2beAMom
And.. I resent the calling me stupid.. I happen to be a well educated self made woman who didn't get where I am by being stupid...
Another typical right-wing deflection tactic is to blind themselves to the reality that intelligent, reasonable people disagree with them.
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Originally Posted by Proud2beAMom
Problem is.. there are no ideas from conservatives that I have heard to fix the problems we both recognize.
Except, of course, ACA, which is essentially a right-wing proposed compromise between universal healthcare and letting the poor "die in the streets".
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Originally Posted by NHartphotog
Supporter of Obamacare THINK Obamacare does something else--give health care to the poor, give free health care, cut Big Insurance profits...
Here's another great example of the use of lies to try to support right-wing rhetoric. The lie is clearly evident given how many times in this thread I've said that the intention of ACA is to make health coverage accessible to more of those who previously could not afford healthcare. Nothing about "free". Nothing about cutting profits. But right-wingers have to prevaricate to support what they want, because being honest and forthright about the nature of what their opponents support wouldn't help their cause.
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Originally Posted by simetime
It just seems like the "new republicans" campaigned on stopping a law that has already been passed and in the process shut down the government and rejoice in it and than blame the president for not giving in to their demands to repeal the law that had things in it that the "real republicans" agreed upon. Instead of coming together to fix it the flaws in the system, they rather take it apart with no clear replacement for it just to make the president look bad.
Because, of course, they want ever-increasing economic injustice, because that benefits their rich masters. That's the fundamental intention of their political party, at this point. Since marginalizing the religious reactionaries in their midst, there's nothing else that the right-wing has to aim for.
Oh yes, your graph. France has a progressive and regressive tax structure. There is progressive taxation and regressive taxation.
Which is why the chart indicates ALL taxes. The U.S.'s taxes are progressive. France's taxes are regressive.
The Europeans want their social programs, but they're willing to*pay*for them. Left-leaning Americans want our country to have European-style social programs but they whine and stomp their feet and insist that someone else pay for them.
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Actually, I did read the article, it was amusing. And you're the one that tied the lowering of IQ to social welfare programs.
Social welfare programs are exactly why Western countries have much lower infant/child mortality rates among those who reproduce the most (no-/low-income receiving public assistance) than do sub-Saharan, etc., countries in which those programs are largely nonexistant. Such produces the effect of dysgenic fertility.*
Because, of course, they want ever-increasing economic injustice, because that benefits their rich masters.
No, they DON'T want ever-increasing economic injustice, which is WHY they oppose the U.S.'s progressive tax system. What you are spectacularly failing to understand is that when a government is over-reliant on the highest income earners for tax revenue, it creates a perverse incentive to keep the income gap as wide as possible so that tax revenue is maximized.
By supporting a 'soak the rich' mentality, the left is gullibly and willingly participating in their own economic suppression.
The Europeans want their social programs, but they're willing to pay for them. Left-leaning Americans want our country to have European-style social programs, but they want someone else to pay for them.
Notice, too, that the countries that have regressive tax systems also have far less income inequality. I've previously explained why our progressive tax system actually creates an incentive for the government to promote highly unequal incomes. The more the top 1% earns, the more tax revenue the government collects. More here: http://www.city-data.com/forum/28408475-post977.html
Economist Anatole Kaletsky states the same:
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Kaletsky argues that over-reliance on progressives taxes creates “a perverse incentive for governments to promote income inequality. If the solvency of the state and the ability to fund basic services for the poorest people in society depends on the rich getting even richer, it is tempting for even the most progressive politicians to support widening inequalities.”
Many Americans don't understand that very basic concept and therefore are firmly entrenched in demanding the U.S.'s progressive tax system soak the rich, which by its very nature depends on keeping the income gap as wide as possible.
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