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Old 11-24-2007, 07:42 PM
 
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It's an interesting question, one that, in its general sense goes to the heart of the difference between fine, upstanding liberals and...well, those other people. In its more specific senses though, it devolves rather quickly into the question of how much it is actually reasonable to hold an individual responsible for, and then of what agency the remainder, whatever that is, should be assigned to. If it is unreasonable to hold an individual responsible for a particular event or condition, must the state (aka, society) then be itself directly responsible for the event or condition in order to be assigned the costs for it, or is the state the appropriate default assignee for the costs of all circumstances that are beyond individual control? And once we work out an acceptable model for costs, is the same model appropriate for use with respect to benefits? Should individuals be able to keep windfalls or other benefits that accrue to them as the result of responsibility that they personally did not exercise? Does the remainder, whatever that is, by default then accrue to the state? As I said, interesting questions, but I'm not sure that too many folks actually spend much time thinking about them...
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Old 11-25-2007, 12:02 AM
 
69,372 posts, read 55,371,954 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishmonger View Post
Do you have a tendency to blame people for their own situations? If so, would you proudly label yourself a "social darwinist" of sorts? Or do you have a tendency to blame society, or possibly external, non-societal factors? Or do you try to combine both to reach a balanced approximation in a variety of cases? Or do you completely not care and not feel like answering this question because you feel that the question is stupid and poorly worded, intended merely to inflame conflict and irrational diatribes rather than foster enlightenment and understanding?
Fishmonger, I'm sensing some sort of pattern with your postings, they all lean toward.. give me, give me, give me.

Sorry but please tell me where in the bill of rights, consitution, or any other document put into place by our founding fathers, that dictate that the government will be responsible to pay of a a single individual that chooses to live here.

As for your question, I lean libertarian for individual responsibilities, and conservative on political responsibilities.
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Old 11-25-2007, 12:37 AM
 
1,572 posts, read 3,679,134 times
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Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
To a large degree, you're right. In its present sense, government "kindness" is a sad, over-the-top joke. However, I still want a minimal "safety net". I don't really want to live in a society where we have to step over homeless quadriplegic beggars just to get down the street. I want to take care of the deserving destitute. I'm not interested, though, in welfare as a comfortable, attractive career option.
Socially safety nets should exist not because we expect the government to be kind, but because we share solidarity as citizens of a nation. Framing the issue as charity is just feeding into the right wing. I'm sure that is not your intent, though.

And for those people who aren't familiar with Strain Theory in sociology or criminology, look it up. When you give people few choices in life, they turn to crime. In alot of areas dealing crack is the only way to make good money and have the nice car and be a respected member of society. Don't like that thought (respect from drug dealing- what... is this guy high? No, hear me out...) Well, you buy into as much as everybody else. Nobody wants to be seen as poor, that's why people in the ghetto spend money on bling and expensive shoes that they can barely afford. It is the attempt to avoid looking poor and avoiding all that social shame. It is better to be a criminal in society than a homeless person, hill billy, or "trailer trash".

Last edited by Magnulus; 11-25-2007 at 12:48 AM..
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Old 11-25-2007, 02:15 AM
 
Location: Your mind
2,923 posts, read 4,567,663 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
Fishmonger, I'm sensing some sort of pattern with your postings, they all lean toward.. give me, give me, give me.

Sorry but please tell me where in the bill of rights, consitution, or any other document put into place by our founding fathers, that dictate that the government will be responsible to pay of a a single individual that chooses to live here.

As for your question, I lean libertarian for individual responsibilities, and conservative on political responsibilities.
Maybe not so much "give me" as "I think it's better if we're all required to help support others in times of need," in the interests of fairness and for humanitarian reasons, I wouldn't qualify myself as being in a "time of need." As for your question, I would answer it but it doesn't appear to be written as an actual sentence.
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Old 11-25-2007, 02:47 AM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,556 posts, read 19,269,169 times
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This thread at least helps to display leftist 'thought patterns'....

Or more like 'emotion patterns', as it is emotion and feelings(including hate and jealousy) that seem to guide and shape them.
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Old 11-25-2007, 09:47 AM
 
69,372 posts, read 55,371,954 times
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Originally Posted by fishmonger View Post
"I think it's better if we're all required to help support others in times of need," in the interests of fairness and for humanitarian reasons,
I'm sorry, I must have missed that day of school where the discussion of "REQUIRING" to help others is part of the Bill of Rights, and Constitution. Please tell me what section that is located in so I can go re-read them.

You totally miss the parts of what makes the USA so great. The whole country was founded upon individuals, taking responsibility for themself, and then when able to, choose to help others out. Thanksgiving just passing us, I would think you'd realise that this goes back to before the "USA" was even founded, since that was a time to celebrate the pilgrims and indians rejoicing in their cooperation, and helping each other.

Its this freedom to choose to help others, and the freedom of those individuals to choose to take that help which has made this country the best country in the world. The more we are "REQUIRED" to help others by force, the more we fall as a country, and the less people have the ability to choose to help others because then our own economic situations become those that need the handout, vs, those that are able to do the handing.
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Old 11-25-2007, 09:49 AM
 
Location: In the desert
2,621 posts, read 1,954,660 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oz in SC View Post
This thread at least helps to display leftist 'thought patterns'....

Or more like 'emotion patterns', as it is emotion and feelings(including hate and jealousy) that seem to guide and shape them.
I have read 'thought patterns' of the far right on here that show anger,hate,and jealousy.

Responsibility for ones actions certainly hasn't been from republicans lately.

We are all people and I believe the current administration has divided us into left and right more than we ever have been. Sad
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Old 11-25-2007, 09:55 AM
 
69,372 posts, read 55,371,954 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sindey View Post
I have read 'thought patterns' of the far right on here that show anger,hate,and jealousy.
Please copy and paste some of the posts here that show, anger, hate, and/or jelousy.. I've read the postings.. I dont see that at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sidney View Post
Responsibility for ones actions certainly hasn't been from republicans lately.

We are all people and I believe the current administration has divided us into left and right more than we ever have been. Sad
This started back several administrations ago.. Not just the current one.
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Old 11-25-2007, 10:01 AM
 
Location: In the desert
2,621 posts, read 1,954,660 times
Reputation: 1216
[quote=pghquest;2082525]
Quote:
Please copy and paste some of the posts here that show, anger, hate, and/or jelousy.. I've read the postings.. I dont see that at all.
Nirvana guy is filled with hate for the left.

Quote:
This started back several administrations ago.. Not just the current one.
You are correct however, after 9/11 this country was more 'together' than ever before and the current administration could have kept the peoples support rather than divided it.
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Old 11-25-2007, 10:41 AM
 
7,139 posts, read 13,161,125 times
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Don't forget lilypad, she is filled with hate, too.
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