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Yes, he did not want the Jews killed, like Hitler did. However, he said this about Jews:
As regards the Jewish problem, I have been an anti-Semite throughout my life. I have never had contact with Jews. I have considered it intolerable that here in Hungary everything, every factory, bank, large fortune, business, theater, press, commerce, etc. should be in Jewish hands, and that the Jew should be the image reflected of Hungary, especially abroad. Since, however, one of the most important tasks of the government is to raise the standard of living, i.e., we have to acquire wealth, it is impossible, in a year or two, to replace the Jews, who have everything in their hands, and to replace them with incompetent, unworthy, mostly big-mouthed elements, for we should become bankrupt. This requires a generation at least
Well, as this Wikipedia article appears to state, Horthy's "insistence that he was an "anti-Semite" may have been an effort to give himself political cover against the attacks from the extreme antisemitic elements of Hungarian politics." However, I think I read that Horthy supported and/or implemented anti-Jewish laws in Hungary even before Hitler came to power. My point here, though, is that while Horthy's anti-Semitism is obviously disgusting, he was a saint in comparison to Hitler and he should be given appropriate credit for saving the overwhelming majority of the Hungarian Jews for as long as he could (as well as for allowing about 124,000 Jews in Budapest to survive World War II, which would have probably not happened without Horthy's years of stalling and foot-dragging in regards to obeying Hitler's demands to deport/kill the Hungarian Jews).
Well, as this Wikipedia article appears to state, Horthy's "insistence that he was an "anti-Semite" may have been an effort to give himself political cover against the attacks from the extreme antisemitic elements of Hungarian politics." However, I think I read that Horthy supported and/or implemented anti-Jewish laws in Hungary even before Hitler came to power. My point here, though, is that while Horthy's anti-Semitism is obviously disgusting, he was a saint in comparison to Hitler and he should be given appropriate credit for saving the overwhelming majority of the Hungarian Jews for as long as he could (as well as for allowing about 124,000 Jews in Budapest to survive World War II, which would have probably not happened without Horthy's years of stalling and foot-dragging in regards to obeying Hitler's demands to deport/kill the Hungarian Jews).
The controversy here is that unveiling of the statue today is being done by someone who is openly anti-Semite and anti-Israel. Horthy is remembered as a Nazi ally even if he was not a full blown Nazi himself.
The controversy here is that unveiling of the statue today is being done by someone who is openly anti-Semite and anti-Israel. Horthy is remembered as a Nazi ally even if he was not a full blown Nazi himself.
Yeah, I get why having anti-Semites and anti-Zionists unveil this statue would obviously be controversial. (Honestly, though, I don't get why such vile, disgusting individuals admire Horthy to such an extent when they really should be admiring individuals such as Dome Sztojay and Ferenc Szalasi much more).
And Yes, Horthy might be remembered as a Nazi ally, though interestingly enough Hungary's (and Bulgaria's, and Italy's, and Romania's, et cetera) alliance with Nazi Germany might have allowed more Jews in his country to be saved than the amount which would have otherwise been saved (considering that the Nazis often apparently valued loyalty from their allies at least slightly more than killing most/all of the Jews which their allies had).
The Nazis were a big-government, control-over-everything party that pushed socialism, started wars of aggression, and worked relentlessly to force the German people into paths they didn't want to follow.
They were classic leftists. Today they would be called Modern Liberals.
Why does the author refer to the Hungarians who collaborated with them, "far right"?
Yeah, I get why having anti-Semites and anti-Zionists unveil this statue would obviously be controversial. (Honestly, though, I don't get why such vile, disgusting individuals admire Horthy to such an extent when they really should be admiring individuals such as Dome Sztojay and Ferenc Szalasi much more).
And Yes, Horthy might be remembered as a Nazi ally, though interestingly enough Hungary's (and Bulgaria's, and Italy's, and Romania's, et cetera) alliance with Nazi Germany might have allowed more Jews in his country to be saved than the amount which would have otherwise been saved (considering that the Nazis often apparently valued loyalty from their allies at least slightly more than killing most/all of the Jews which their allies had).
Nearly half a million Hungarian Jews perished in the hands of the Nazis while Horthy was in charge. Finland was in similar awkward alliance with Germany when they fought against the USSR, but they didn't allow Germans to round up their Jews. The Finnish Jews fought with the rest of the nation. If Finland could say "no" to Hitler, then why couldn't Hungary? It sounds like they didn't even try.
Why does the author refer to the Hungarians who collaborated with them, "far right"?
Because they were far right. They were Hungarian conservative authoritarians. Read up about "White Terror" where they rounded up communists, socialists and Jews and killed them. The Hungarian far-right, like the Nazis, considered communists their enemy #1.
The Nazis were a big-government, control-over-everything party that pushed socialism, started wars of aggression, and worked relentlessly to force the German people into paths they didn't want to follow.
They were classic leftists. Today they would be called Modern Liberals.
Why does the author refer to the Hungarians who collaborated with them, "far right"?
Because they were far right. They were Hungarian conservative authoritarians.
Authoritarians are not conservatives.
Quote:
The Hungarian far-right, like the Nazis, considered communists their enemy #1.
The Nazis considered communists their enemy #1 because they couldn't stand the competition. Each group was fighting for despotic control over the German people... to the German people's detriment.
Well, these right-wing conservatives were authoritarians.
This describes them very well.
Quote:
Right-wing authoritarianism (RWA) is a personality and ideological variable studied in political, social, and personality psychology. Right-wing authoritarians are people who have a high degree of willingness to submit to authorities they perceive as established and legitimate, who adhere to societal conventions and norms, and who are hostile and punitive in their attitudes towards people who don't adhere to them. They value uniformity and are in favour of using group authority, including coercion, to achieve it
1. Nearly half a million Hungarian Jews perished in the hands of the Nazis while Horthy was in charge.
2. Finland was in similar awkward alliance with Germany when they fought against the USSR, but they didn't allow Germans to round up their Jews.
3. The Finnish Jews fought with the rest of the nation.
4. If Finland could say "no" to Hitler, then why couldn't Hungary? It sounds like they didn't even try.
1. Yes, but this was after the Nazis occupied Hungary in 1944. At that point, Horthy didn't really have much leverage left (Yes, Horthy did manage to delay the deportation of the Jews of Budapest in early July 1944 after the Vrba-Wetzler report was released, but AFAIK even this was only done with Heinrich Himmler's permission/consent--else, it would not have happened). Horthy remained the official leader of Hungary after the German occupation, though as I'd already stated, the de facto final decision makers in Hungary after March 1944 were the Nazis, not Horthy.
2. Neither did Hungary until they got occupied by the Nazis.
3. I am aware of this. Honestly, I am unsure if Horthy allowed Hungarian Jews to enlist in Hungary's military, though.
4. Because Finland, unlike Hungary, was never occupied by the Nazis. It is much easier to refuse to hand over Jews to the Nazis when you don't actually have Nazi troops in your country. This is also in large part why the Jews in Bulgaria and southern Italy, as well as the Jews in northern Italy until the German occupation of 1943-1945, survived. Also, once again, Horthy did refuse to hand over the overwhelming majority of the Hungarian Jews until the Nazi occupation of Hungary in 1944. This was the point when he actually had a large amount of power and say in regards to what happened in Hungary--after March 1944, the Nazis were the ones making all of the final major decisions in regards to Hungary.
That doesn't say much about the "regular" Hungarian people IF their "Jews" basically ran things.
It's more complicated than that. And frankly, the average Hungarian had no problem with Jews in Hungary. It wasn't very anti-Semitic compared to its neighbors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little-Acorn
The Nazis were a big-government, control-over-everything party that pushed socialism, started wars of aggression, and worked relentlessly to force the German people into paths they didn't want to follow.
They were classic leftists. Today they would be called Modern Liberals.
Why does the author refer to the Hungarians who collaborated with them, "far right"?
Please stop relating the latest rantings from the Rush Limbaugh show to events in Hungary. Everything in the world isn't about how Americans feel about their domestic politics.
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