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Old 11-19-2013, 05:30 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,006 posts, read 44,824,472 times
Reputation: 13709

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
A. That's a blame the victim attitude.
B. Blaming them doesn't fix the problem. They will still clog ERs seeking primary care and delay treatment until minor illnesses become more serious.

Moreover, nobody chooses to be poor. Poverty is largely lack of opportunity. That's the primary reason one lives in the economic class one was born, as a general rule.
Hmmm...

About 80% of U.S. millionaires are first-generation wealthy.

The Millionaire Next Door - NY Times
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Old 11-19-2013, 05:55 AM
 
46,281 posts, read 27,099,738 times
Reputation: 11126
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
A. That's a blame the victim attitude.
B. Blaming them doesn't fix the problem. They will still clog ERs seeking primary care and delay treatment until minor illnesses become more serious.

Moreover, nobody chooses to be poor. Poverty is largely lack of opportunity. That's the primary reason one lives in the economic class one was born, as a general rule.
But but but....I thought that the ACA was a cure all for everything....

That's how it was sold....
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Old 11-19-2013, 06:17 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 13,948,900 times
Reputation: 5661
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Hmmm...

About 80% of U.S. millionaires are first-generation wealthy.

The Millionaire Next Door - NY Times
That's highly misleading. Those that became millionaires started from a position of family advantage in the first place. You got a run because you were born on third base.

This recent study by four economists at Harvard and the University of California at Berkeley about mobility within the United States states that the odds of reaching the top fifth starting from bottom fifth, is slim and the evidence is that intergenerational income mobility in the U.S. is actually lower than in many other developed countries.

From The Economist:
Quote:
Back in its Horatio Alger days, America was more fluid than Europe. Now it is not. Using one-generation measures of social mobility—how much a father’s relative income influences that of his adult son—America does half as well as Nordic countries, and about the same as Britain and Italy, Europe’s least-mobile places.

And recent research finds that people in Canada and Australia have twice the economic mobility of Americans.

I covered some of this here: http://www.city-data.com/forum/22228488-post69.html

Last edited by CaseyB; 11-19-2013 at 06:50 AM.. Reason: copyright violation
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Old 11-19-2013, 06:25 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,006 posts, read 44,824,472 times
Reputation: 13709
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
That's highly misleading. Those that became millionaires started from a position of family advantage in the first place.
No, they did not. I can tell you didn't even bother to read the first chapter the NY Times published, which I linked.

Quote:
And recent research finds that people in Canada and Australia have twice the economic mobility of Americans.
Both of those countries have more regressive taxes than the U.S. Ready to jump on the regressive tax bandwagon?

Other countries taxes are more regressive - Washington Post
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Old 11-19-2013, 06:28 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,006 posts, read 44,824,472 times
Reputation: 13709
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
Quote:
America is particularly exposed to the virtuous-meritocracy paradox because its poor are getting married in ever smaller numbers, leaving more children with single mothers short of time and money.
You DO realize that happens because MORE welfare benefits are paid out to single mothers, no? The government actually INCENTIVIZES that outcome by providing additional financial benefits to those of such circumstances.

Last edited by InformedConsent; 11-19-2013 at 06:41 AM..
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Old 11-19-2013, 06:34 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,300 posts, read 22,221,236 times
Reputation: 6553
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
A. That's a blame the victim attitude.
B. Blaming them doesn't fix the problem. They will still clog ERs seeking primary care and delay treatment until minor illnesses become more serious.

Moreover, nobody chooses to be poor. Poverty is largely lack of opportunity. That's the primary reason one lives in the economic class one was born, as a general rule.
The poor in this country. Many are poor through no fault of their own. You'll get no argument from me on that. Many however are poor and then exasperate their financial woes by making stupid choices. Like having children they can't afford. How much more difficult can you make your life than by having kids you can't afford????
How do you fix stupid? We have tried throwing money at the problem and have gained very little if anything.
I agree lack of opportunity is a big problem, but often that lack of opportunity is as much self inflicted as it is due to economic class.
I grew up poor, very poor. 5 kids to parents who couldn't afford 1. 4 out of 5 are doing quite well. The 5th is rather foolish with his decision making.
What percentage are now poor because of a loss in career? What percentage are poor because they allowed themselves to get pregnant in their late teens? I stress allowed themselves. You can't blame society because some people can't figure it out that having unprotected sex causes pregnancy.
What can you do about people who refuse to think 30 seconds ahead?
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Old 11-19-2013, 06:38 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
37,803 posts, read 41,013,481 times
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What's the definition of young? What ages are we talking about? Because I don't get it.

If the Obama administration says you can be on your parents' health insurance until you are 26 then that's a whole lot of "young people" not signing up for Obamacare. Then, to double down, he gives employer plans an extra year. If he did not do that, it would have dumped many parents and their under 26 year old kids into Obamacare (when employers find health insurance unaffordable because the cost is increased to meet Obamacare requirements), something you would think he'd want to do to make Obamacare flush.

Is this self-inflicted sabotage somehow related to getting to single payer faster? Somebody draw me a picture.
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Old 11-19-2013, 06:40 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 13,948,900 times
Reputation: 5661
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
No, they did not. I can tell you didn't even bother to read the first chapter the NY Times published, which I linked.

Both of those countries have more regressive taxes than the U.S. Ready to jump on the regressive tax bandwagon?

Other countries taxes are more regressive - Washington Post
What the NY Times published was a book synopsis and there was only one sentence of relevance and the methodology was not disclosed.
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Old 11-19-2013, 07:15 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,006 posts, read 44,824,472 times
Reputation: 13709
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
What the NY Times published was a book synopsis
False. The NY Times published the first chapter of the book. I suggest you read the entire book. Many of your beliefs are misconceptions.

The author has published other books, and updates data regularly. The Millionaire Next Door was recently republished with updated data:

Thomas J. Stanley | Official Website and Blog
Thomas J. Stanley
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Old 11-19-2013, 09:28 AM
 
641 posts, read 240,732 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old_cold View Post
Other than maybe a rare instance of finding a chronic homeless person in a big city, has anyone seen uninsured sick people just dying the streets?
"In 2002, the Institute of Medicine released a groundbreaking report, Care without Coverage: Too Little, Too Late. This report estimated that, nationwide, 18,000 adults between the ages of 25 and 64 died in 2000 because they did not have health insurance." "The number of uninsured Americans reached an all-time high in 2010" (Dying for Coverage)

They may not be dying in the streets, but they are dying just the same.
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