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Old 11-13-2013, 06:17 PM
 
Location: Riverside
4,088 posts, read 4,379,731 times
Reputation: 3092

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Quote:
Originally Posted by KickAssArmyChick View Post
My super liberal History teacher asked us what we think of voter ID laws and I said I am for it. He then said having voter ID laws would disfranchise the poor, minorities, the folks who can't get IDs because some are too old and don't have a birth certificate. He said the lack of ID would keep them from exercising their right to vote and voter ID laws are wrong.

So I asked him why is it that I need to how an ID when purchasing a gun since that is also a right and if it bothers him that law abiding minorities and the poor who can't get an ID cannot exercise their right to keep and bear arms due to laws that forbid the sale of weapons without an ID.

He dodged that question FIVE times even though I kept bringing it up. Still hasn't answered it.

You can say a vote can't kill, or something along those lines. However, keeping and bearing arms is a RIGHT just like voting is. So I guess some liberals only care about certain rights and don't think the same standard should apply to all of them. I don't see them advocating for the poor Joe Schmoe who wants to buy a gun but can't because he can't afford an ID...

Also, how can anyone live in this country their entire lives, go to school, get a job, be a productive member of society without having to prove who they are?!
Your professor probably gave up on trying to reason with you. But I haven't!

Look, WHY do you think Republican legislatures are pushing so hard for these laws? To prevent fraud? Please. There were like a couple hundred incidents of "wrong guy voting " cases in the whole election, out of hundreds of millions of votes cast. And how many were actual crimes? Like, three???

No. The laws are intended to help the GOP stem the demographic tide. The propeller beanies in the GOP labs crunched the numbers. For various social and economic reasons, the ID requirement is two to three times more likely to prevent a Dem vote than a GOP one.

That's all there is to it.
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Old 11-13-2013, 06:38 PM
 
4,837 posts, read 4,160,558 times
Reputation: 1848
Well, hmm, I recall there's something in the Constitution about voting, blah blah blah, no poll tax, yada yada. I'm sure it's in there somewhere. I'm also sure it's NOT in there regarding the 2nd amendment, but what do I know.

Here's the thing: the argument FOR voter ID in reference to eliminating voter fraud is bull. In every instance of checking into this "rampant" fraud, it's come up naught or simply a couple of instances. Sorry, weak argument. Let's also look at what this voter id is also tied in with: gerrymandering, trying to eliminate same day registration & cutting back on hours & days of absentee voting. I'd like to add also that they want to eliminate students being able to vote with their student ID, they'd have to get a state issued ID. There are thousands of students that come from out of state who don't drive so therefore, don't need a state ID. There's no reason for it other than the cons own special interests. It's blatantly obvious.

Last edited by northnut; 11-13-2013 at 06:55 PM..
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Old 11-13-2013, 06:46 PM
 
1,259 posts, read 2,254,442 times
Reputation: 1306
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophiasmommy View Post
Thread title says it all. Discuss. P.S. Canada and most of Europe require photo i.d. to vote as well.
OP, Are you also pushing for folks to show ID when buying a gun? If not, then have a seat.
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Old 11-13-2013, 07:11 PM
 
62,736 posts, read 28,944,698 times
Reputation: 18490
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gurbie View Post
Your professor probably gave up on trying to reason with you. But I haven't!

Look, WHY do you think Republican legislatures are pushing so hard for these laws? To prevent fraud? Please. There were like a couple hundred incidents of "wrong guy voting " cases in the whole election, out of hundreds of millions of votes cast. And how many were actual crimes? Like, three???

No. The laws are intended to help the GOP stem the demographic tide. The propeller beanies in the GOP labs crunched the numbers. For various social and economic reasons, the ID requirement is two to three times more likely to prevent a Dem vote than a GOP one.

That's all there is to it.
If it were only a couple of hundred "wrong guys voting" do you actually think that the GOP would be so concerned about Voter ID laws? It wouldn't be worth their time or effort then. IMO, I don't care what party desires Voter ID laws and who doesn't. Only citizens should be voting and therefore we need Voter ID laws. All the excuses in the world about disenfranchising some with these laws is just nonsense. Are we supposed to just assume someone is a citizen at the polls?
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Old 11-13-2013, 07:12 PM
 
26,346 posts, read 14,957,649 times
Reputation: 14523
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rggr View Post
They must be; they even have tough border laws.
Good point - and Mexico has tougher laws barring foreigners from some fields of work - they are clearly racist.
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Old 11-13-2013, 07:13 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,300 posts, read 22,184,820 times
Reputation: 6552
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gurbie View Post
The voter ID laws coming out of ALEC (the RW legislative puppy farm) are not so much racist, as they are opportunistic and cynical.
Which regulations specifically single out race?
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Old 11-13-2013, 07:18 PM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,782 posts, read 17,323,955 times
Reputation: 7990
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gurbie View Post
Your professor probably gave up on trying to reason with you. But I haven't!

Look, WHY do you think Republican legislatures are pushing so hard for these laws? To prevent fraud? Please. There were like a couple hundred incidents of "wrong guy voting " cases in the whole election, out of hundreds of millions of votes cast. And how many were actual crimes? Like, three???

No. The laws are intended to help the GOP stem the demographic tide. The propeller beanies in the GOP labs crunched the numbers. For various social and economic reasons, the ID requirement is two to three times more likely to prevent a Dem vote than a GOP one.

That's all there is to it.

I have posted this before, but I'll try again. In 2004 in WA we had a gubernatorial election that was ultimately decided by 129 votes, won by Dem. Chris Gregoire over Rep. Dino Rossi. The result was challenged in court. The judge found that there were over 1600 illegal votes, most by felons, dead people, or people voting twice. But there was no way to know who got those votes, so the judge let the result stand.

There were also over 50,000 'enhanced ballots' in King Cty. alone. These are improperly filled out ballots. For example one voter checked the oval for Gregoire, and then wrote in "Christine Rossi" on the write-in space. The vote was counted for Gregoire. There were other problems, such as military votes not counted.

So it's not one or two or three incidents here and there. It's thousands.
Washington gubernatorial election, 2004 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Possibly the propeller heads in the democratic party labs ran the numbers and found that an illegally cast vote or enhanced ballot is 100 times more likely to go D than R.
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Old 11-13-2013, 07:58 PM
 
20,524 posts, read 15,867,636 times
Reputation: 5943
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gurbie View Post
Your professor probably gave up on trying to reason with you. But I haven't!

Look, WHY do you think Republican legislatures are pushing so hard for these laws? To prevent fraud? Please. There were like a couple hundred incidents of "wrong guy voting " cases in the whole election, out of hundreds of millions of votes cast. And how many were actual crimes? Like, three???

No. The laws are intended to help the GOP stem the demographic tide. The propeller beanies in the GOP labs crunched the numbers. For various social and economic reasons, the ID requirement is two to three times more likely to prevent a Dem vote than a GOP one.

That's all there is to it.
Uh; to collect things like EBT, welfare and so on, ID is the RULE. So what's the big deal about ID to vote? I HAVE to show mine and I'm an "anglo white" dude of Irish family. Sheesh!
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Old 11-13-2013, 08:11 PM
 
Location: Laurentia
5,580 posts, read 7,981,200 times
Reputation: 2442
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
99% of American transactions today require you to show a valid picture ID.
Oh, really? I just went to two stores earlier today and bought a Christmas tree and some paint, and all I had to show was a credit card. It's the same story every time I shop online and in almost all transactions at brick-and-mortar stores. I'd go so far as to say that at least 90% of all transactions people conduct in a given year don't require identification of any kind. There's a good reason for that - restrictions and burdens are inherent in requiring photo ID, and unless there is good reason for requiring it it does more harm than good. Even the small minority of transactions that do require photo ID are by and large overkill - one time I had to show a government-issued photo ID to send a package somewhere, and I have no idea what good that restriction does; in the case of mailing anthrax the guy that was accused of mailing anthrax in 2001 worked for the government, so he'd have easily met that requirement.

In the case of voting the burden of having to obtain a photo ID or present it at the polling place either disenfranchises some people completely (because they don't have or cannot get a government-issued photo ID) or more importantly the added difficulty causes them to not vote at all. The more hoops you make people jump through in order to vote, the more likely they will give up on trying to vote. Voter photo ID is also redundant, considering that you need to prove who you are in order to be a registered voter in the first place. The number of legitimate voters that are either disenfranchised or discouraged from voting is orders of magnitude higher than the number of people who commit voter fraud.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Globe199 View Post
Tell you what. Since all those countries also outlaw capital punishment, let's make a deal. Voting IDs in exchange for abolishing the death penalty. If we're going to look to other countries for guidance on one law, we better be prepared to look at all their laws.
While we're at it, we could also get single-payer health care and a lower corporate tax rate.
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Old 11-13-2013, 08:15 PM
 
Location: Allendale MI
2,523 posts, read 2,199,215 times
Reputation: 698
When did Mexico become a model for us laws?
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