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I wish there were more jobs in customer service for young people to jump into right out of high school. So many companies, so much on the job experience, lost to generations. Working jobs like that is part of how people were socialized and how they learned manners, the art of conversation, and how to think on their feet and problem solve. Now it's just all about having a specialized skill and hoping you get a job somewhere so you can do that one thing. Bah. Not even room to grow anymore. People I started out with took those entry jobs and worked their way up and many stayed (or planned to stay) with one company for life so they not only got very good at whatever they did, they felt connected to it, felt pride about it, and took responsibility for it. Then...BAM...it all went away to save money. Once the business, the product, and customer service took a back seat to $ everything went downhill. Even the $, ironically.
The structure of the labor market was entirely different back then. This is before all the factories were offshored and before they imported 30 million illegals to do manual labor or millions of H1Bs to do IT jobs.
Young people worked in all those industries when the economy improved.
There wasn't a permanent loss of jobs except in heavy industry like steel production and in automobile manufacturing, both of which were not competitive with Japan.
In my opinion, here's the difference between the two eras: today, they are artificially supporting the wealth of the top one percent with money printing. This allows capital to stay misallocated (which is the underlying cause of ALL recessions). The result is a never-ending downturn for the young.
The Fed is printing the money. The Obama administration wants the money printed to allow O to pretend to be a competent President and to allow spending on his welfare constituency.
And yet Obama was supposed to redistribute wealth. Something a good number of millennials stand for (look at the Occupiers.) However to me, it was one of the many promises he wanted to achieve that I couldn't trust he could do and therefore, didn't vote for him.
I wish there were more jobs in customer service for young people to jump into right out of high school. So many companies, so much on the job experience, lost to generations. Working jobs like that is part of how people were socialized and how they learned manners, the art of conversation, and how to think on their feet and problem solve. Now it's just all about having a specialized skill and hoping you get a job somewhere so you can do that one thing. Bah. Not even room to grow anymore. People I started out with took those entry jobs and worked their way up and many stayed (or planned to stay) with one company for life so they not only got very good at whatever they did, they felt connected to it, felt pride about it, and took responsibility for it. Then...BAM...it all went away to save money. Once the business, the product, and customer service took a back seat to $ everything went downhill. Even the $, ironically.
There are a lot of customer service and retail jobs. The problem is these have been a bulk of the jobs created while we saw more and more middle and higher wage jobs die off. This has caused a good number of experienced people to take these jobs and force out those who traditionally took those jobs, college students, high school graduates and high school students.
Since I signed up for City-Data, I have seen many generation warfare threads about millennials and how they are immature, misinformed, entitled, ect. It honestly sickens me to see all this. Yes, there is some truth down there such as social media stupidity (I don't get why people need to mention they are getting drunk on facebook or twitter and posting videos of doing stupid stuff while high on YouTube.) However I don't think all of this is fair. There has to be something where this comes from.
I was watching Michael Moore's Bowling For Columbine and while I don't agree with him I found an interesting comment from one of the creators of South Park Matt Stone. In it he was told Michael Moore that his parents, guidance councilors and teachers told him he needed to get into seventh grade honors math, he needed to pass. If he couldn't do it, he was told he would be a failure and would always be a failure.
To me this turned my gears. I know it has been talked about several millennials (myself included) that we "needed" college, the same way Matt Stone needed to enter his honors math. That if we didn't go to college, there would be no way of being able to get a good job and there for I would be a loser. Similar to Stone, if you hear it enough you start to believe it. And it doesn't help when you stand against the grain you become an outcast.
I think this is something we need to ponder over and think about. Perhaps millennials in it of themselves aren't whiners, they just got misled by those who raised them and when they graduate and find nothing, it hurts them, even if it was an unintended consequence. And because there isn't much they can do, not many have bootstraps to pull themselves up by and because they have been socialized by liberals perhaps they have a liberal stance on it. Sadly, there hasn't been balance to teach millennials that schooling isn't the most important thing until it is too late and normally it is the condescending tone you see on C-D.
I am by no means trying to start a generation warfare thread by this. I just want to see if we can get some understanding.
Listen Punk,
my cousin graduated college with the highest degrees, almost as a professor himself.
Out of college, he searched and searched for a teaching job, oh, now the liberal meme, okay, the family he came from were the staunchest of republicans in southern Illinois, and no, he did not find a teaching job for years and years. He took on odd jobs and waited, paying room and board to his parents (chipping in) and finally, after six long years, he finally landed a teaching job. He obtained his degree in 1975, in 1981 a high school in downstate Illinois hired him.
So, my advice to you is, go tell it on the mountain,
He obtained his degree in 1975, in 1981 a high school in downstate Illinois hired him.
He graduated and walked smack into a recession. Many Boomers on C-D have commented on how difficult it was to get a job in that period. My sympathies to him. Those years are proof, despite the rather odd beliefs some on C-D, the Boomers didn't have jobs waiting for them the day they left school.
Location: Just transplanted to FL from the N GA mountains
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoJiveMan
Listen Punk,
my cousin graduated college with the highest degrees, almost as a professor himself.
Out of college, he searched and searched for a teaching job, oh, now the liberal meme, okay, the family he came from were the staunchest of republicans in southern Illinois, and no, he did not find a teaching job for years and years. He took on odd jobs and waited, paying room and board to his parents (chipping in) and finally, after six long years, he finally landed a teaching job. He obtained his degree in 1975, in 1981 a high school in downstate Illinois hired him.
So, my advice to you is, go tell it on the mountain,
#1. A Phd doesn't make one a professor. All that doctorate does is make you "eligible" to go into the academia field and teach at the upper levels. My son is a few weeks from his PhD... does that make him a professor? Nope... not even close.
#2. He should feel lucky. I grew up in downstate Illinois. When your discussing downstate you can take Chicago unemployment rates and make them exponentially higher. And in 1981 there was absolutely NOTHING easy about finding work in that area.
He graduated and walked smack into a recession. Many Boomers on C-D have commented on how difficult it was to get a job in that period. My sympathies to him. Those years are proof, despite the rather odd beliefs some on C-D, the Boomers didn't have jobs waiting for them the day they left school.
Somehow, when youngsters are in HS, their parents encourage their children to grow up, be responsible, and occasionally, assist their children with college tuition and expenses, some parents drill this into a child's brain that obtaining a college education somehow almost guarantees they'll have a job waiting for them when all schooling is completed.
That was supposed to be the case with my cousin, who I gave an example of in the earlier post.
Can a person be successful w/o a college education or a degree? absolutely.
Somehow, coming to a forum, whining about the way things are just doesn't cut it with me, sorry, it just doesn't, then the OP had to throw in the liberal jibberish, that's about enough.
I think maybe parents drill and force stuff upon their children and on into their late teens, IMO, that's wrong, parents should nurture and help their children any way possible, and let the child grow up being themselves, instead of having a force field around them all of the time.
About the only people completing college degrees who are guaranteed something is by relatives, mother, father, uncle, acquaintances who hold high positions as say doctors, lawyers, politicians, who might say well, if you do this, they'll line you up with a great career doing what we do. Not everyone, but some. Certainly not the majority of the middle or working class. It's always been tough on young adults right out of college, always. Life is not a bowl of cherries with whipped cream on top.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aus10
#1. A Phd doesn't make one a professor. All that doctorate does is make you "eligible" to go into the academia field and teach at the upper levels. My son is a few weeks from his PhD... does that make him a professor? Nope... not even close.
#2. He should feel lucky. I grew up in downstate Illinois. When your discussing downstate you can take Chicago unemployment rates and make them exponentially higher. And in 1981 there was absolutely NOTHING easy about finding work in that area.
True.
And it never is, in finding what a person want's to do after being educated. People go for years and years without applying what they've learned, some do the unthinkable and take minimum wage jobs just to get by on.
Listen Punk,
my cousin graduated college with the highest degrees, almost as a professor himself.
Out of college, he searched and searched for a teaching job, oh, now the liberal meme, okay, the family he came from were the staunchest of republicans in southern Illinois, and no, he did not find a teaching job for years and years. He took on odd jobs and waited, paying room and board to his parents (chipping in) and finally, after six long years, he finally landed a teaching job. He obtained his degree in 1975, in 1981 a high school in downstate Illinois hired him.
So, my advice to you is, go tell it on the mountain,
If you read through the post, you would know why I made the liberal comment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk
With the socialized by liberals comment, I didn't mean their parents were liberals nor was I saying that liberals are bootstrappers. They are two things that while not exactly mutually exclusive basically should be. I am sorry for miscategorizing. What I mean was socialized with not just their parents but the local area and their school. I mean agree with the "it takes a village to raise a child" theory but the two most important people in a child's lives are the parents. If the parent wants their child to be more entrepreneurial, they have to enforce that. If they think they should go into trades or STEM fields, they should help guide them that way. Not complain about them when they can't find a degree in women's studies when they didn't care.
To me that, is the issue right there. A good number of parents for the millennials (whether they were sibling parents rather than actual parents) didn't do what your's(referring to you Carter) did and that is take an active role in your kid's lives. Mine did too because my brother and I enter boy scouts. I was in the program until about the age of 20 when I moved away to Arizona. (FYI, I think Arizona is the Florida judging from my experience.) The issue is, it seems like many parents didn't take interest in what kids did that or they take the wrong interest too late (helicopter parenting.)
The issue is I am not sure what type parents others had. Some may have had one similar to mine that showed the right kind of interest. Others might not until they left the nest for college. Some might have helped the whole "you need a college education" "lie." I am using quotes here because I am not sure how much of a lie it is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk
That is why I consider those who raised should look at the problem. I think part of the problem is there was no balance to these "delusional educrats" and politicians who said a college degree was all you need for success. This is unlike other posters who admitted what they did teach their millennials right. The problem is many parents weren't as hands on as those who raised right. And there for a village became their parents and when you have the "delusional educrats" it's not hard to see what they became.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk
I think this is a problem and I think it ties into something my father (an early/mid boomer) and I always talk about. The village have to step up to replace the parents who may not have had the time or will to actually engage with their children. Sadly when you have people who say college debt is good debt enough it becomes gospel even when it's a pack of lies and not go into trades because you don't make as much lifetime earnings as those with degrees (on average.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DewDropInn
He graduated and walked smack into a recession. Many Boomers on C-D have commented on how difficult it was to get a job in that period. My sympathies to him. Those years are proof, despite the rather odd beliefs some on C-D, the Boomers didn't have jobs waiting for them the day they left school.
But for a decent number of them, they were able to scrape together a job maybe two. Good luck for millennials being able to do that, there are many people fighting for those jobs.
He graduated and walked smack into a recession. Many Boomers on C-D have commented on how difficult it was to get a job in that period. My sympathies to him. Those years are proof, despite the rather odd beliefs some on C-D, the Boomers didn't have jobs waiting for them the day they left school.
It depends on where you are as a boomer. The early boomers did very well and had pretty good lives for the most part. Those born after around 1955 had it much harder because there was very little left for them from the early boomers.
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