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View Poll Results: Do you favor raising the minimum wage to $9 an hour?
Yes 38 36.89%
No 65 63.11%
Voters: 103. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-15-2013, 02:26 PM
 
4,743 posts, read 3,735,045 times
Reputation: 2482

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Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
Since I've seen conservatives on here touting Gallup as a valid pollster; according to Gallup, most Americans, even a majority of Republican voters, are in favor of increasing the federal minimum wage to $9.
Most Americans also believe in a cosmic being that oversees their daily life. Most americans would be moved to bet red, after seeing 5 blacks hit the roulette in a row.


I don't have a lot of interest in the thoughts and capabilities of "most Americans"
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Old 11-15-2013, 02:27 PM
 
39,519 posts, read 40,848,534 times
Reputation: 16311
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
Sigh. Its not a linear function. Of course you're aware of this I assume. If not, and are math challenged please say so. Im going to assume you are though.

so basically this is a meaningless attack, and you know it. You just don't like someone saying you are wrong, and then providing evidence.
Look, having been in business the last 25 years I can tell you that when my costs go up so do the costs of my goods. That's just the way it works. Whether those expenses are fuel, electricity, taxes or what I have to pay employees it's all included, all I care about is what the bottom line is on those expenses. I have set percentage I want to make on my time and investment and if I can't meet that percentage I either raise the cost of the product or I'm going to find something else to do if I can't make enough.
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Old 11-15-2013, 02:36 PM
 
9,856 posts, read 13,437,067 times
Reputation: 5453
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
Sigh...fine lets do this.

.A 10 percent hike in minium wage results in a 0.1 to 0.4% rise in prices. (literally less then 1%)
Minimum Wage Hikes Do Not Cause Inflation

On the OTHER hand I have seen other studies rate it as high as 4%!
A Survey of the Effects of the Minimum Wage on Prices

IE a $2 rise in minimum wage results in a SMALL rise in prices.

Feel free to back your fantasy up with some reliable data.

And while YOU may be a nice guy and all and want your employees to make reasonable money, I assure you, most corporations do not work that way. They will reduce pay lower and lower until they can no longer find people. Then they will hope we subsidize them with welfare. Nice! MOST labor is unskilled. And your skilled guys?

Hey you can work for $2 less, or go work at mcdonalds.

your arguments are unsubstantiated, and false.

You live in new york right? and you say your minimum wage is $5...
No. minimum wage there is over $9 currently So you're living in the past using those numbers.

You really dont appear to understand the economics of things. Now if you say "but less jobs"....yup. thats a issue, but not as large as one as you may believe. I've seen figures of a 1% loss for a 10% wage increase. And guess what-if those jobs arent paying enough that they are worth doing without everyone subsidizing those employees....then those jobs should not be done, and those employees should find something worthwhile doing.
Can you just admit you never bothered to read the studies themselves? Your numbers are based on a two studies done in Arizona and Florida by an organization called "The Center for American Progress", which is a liberal thinktank. The base data says that raising the minimum wage in Arizona and Florida by $1.50 will add over $312 million dollars in additional cost to businesses in Arizona and an additional $406 million to florida businesses. The studies also assume that no jobs are lost. They never bothered to look at what actually happened. They just assumed no jobs would be lost because:

Quote:
Because these overall cost increases will be such a small proportion of sales to businesses, we conclude that these costs can be readily absorbed by the businesses and consumers, primarily through very small price increases.
Which is point blank a ridiculous assumption to make, and is a statement they never try to prove to be correct. They just assume away all of the flaws in their argument. Your entire argument is based on assumptions like this, and has no bearing on reality.
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Old 11-15-2013, 02:38 PM
 
Location: Billings, MT
9,539 posts, read 7,857,797 times
Reputation: 13301
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Look, having been in business the last 25 years I can tell you that when my costs go up so do the costs of my goods. That's just the way it works. Whether those expenses are fuel, electricity, taxes or what I have to pay employees it's all included, all I care about is what the bottom line is on those expenses. I have set percentage I want to make on my time and investment and if I can't meet that percentage I either raise the cost of the product or I'm going to find something else to do if I can't make enough.
And THAT is the way it is in the business world! Either you make a good return on your investment (a [here's that foul, filthy word] PROFIT), or you go out of business and do something else. No business can be a philanthropic enterprise and survive. When the cost of doing business goes up, no matter WHY it goes up, there MUST be an increase in income to offset the increased cost.
The wage earner who got the pay raise for doing nothing will soon find that his purchasing power is back at the same level that it was before he got the raise. It could even be less, as has happened in the past.
"There ain't no such thing as a free lunch!" SOMEBODY is paying for it.
A pay raise without a corresponding increase in hours or productivity is an attempt at a free lunch. Sooner or later, the bill comes due!
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Old 11-15-2013, 03:31 PM
 
26,304 posts, read 12,872,191 times
Reputation: 12551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil306 View Post
But people like you don't want that. You don't want to have to work for anything. You want the government to force it, so you can have your cake and eat it too. All at someone else's expense.
Sigh. and the personal attacks start. People like me who earn 6 figures you mean? We want our cake and to eat it to? At someone elses expense?

Listen, these things would be at MY expense. I know, shocking, I am a person who thinks of our economy and society as a whole, not just "I've got mine"
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Old 11-15-2013, 03:42 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
12,289 posts, read 7,973,207 times
Reputation: 6464
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
Sigh. and the personal attacks start. People like me who earn 6 figures you mean? We want our cake and to eat it to? At someone elses expense?

Listen, these things would be at MY expense. I know, shocking, I am a person who thinks of our economy and society as a whole, not just "I've got mine"
Feel free to tip next time you go to mcdonalds then, don't force the rest of us to pay extra to make you feel good.
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Old 11-15-2013, 03:47 PM
 
32,501 posts, read 26,389,888 times
Reputation: 19153
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
Sigh. and the personal attacks start. People like me who earn 6 figures you mean? We want our cake and to eat it to? At someone elses expense?

Listen, these things would be at MY expense. I know, shocking, I am a person who thinks of our economy and society as a whole, not just "I've got mine"
if you are so worried about others "not getting theirs", then start you own business, pay more than what the market for that business pays, and see how things go. if you are successful, then perhaps the rest of the market will follow suit.
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Old 11-15-2013, 03:57 PM
 
Location: Dublin, CA
3,813 posts, read 3,661,583 times
Reputation: 3967
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
Sigh. and the personal attacks start. People like me who earn 6 figures you mean? We want our cake and to eat it to? At someone elses expense?

Listen, these things would be at MY expense. I know, shocking, I am a person who thinks of our economy and society as a whole, not just "I've got mine"
No personal attacks, just facts. You want something for nothing or as little as possible. The least you have to work for it, if work at all, is better for you. That is called lazy ness. Pure and simple. If you want to live a great life style, work for it, or be born into money. But your lazy lot (see that is general statement made toward ALL people who think like you) don't want to work for it. You want it given to you and you feel entitled to it. You aren't. You aren't entitled to a job which makes 6 figures, or even 2 figures. If you want that and work for it, more power too you. If you become a billionaire, more power too you. But you aren't OWED anything.

And our society isn't a "whole." NO ONE cares about you, except you and your family. Do think someone in Florida will care if you die tomorrow or come down with cancer? No. They won't even know. And unless it personally affects them, they really don't care, except for MAYBE a mild, glancing, "Oh that is sad." But guess what? The bills keep coming in, the sun rises, and the tides still ebb/flow. You mean nothing to no one on this earth.
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Old 11-15-2013, 03:58 PM
 
18,951 posts, read 9,661,100 times
Reputation: 5316
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
Sigh...fine lets do this.

.A 10 percent hike in minium wage results in a 0.1 to 0.4% rise in prices. (literally less then 1%)
Minimum Wage Hikes Do Not Cause Inflation

On the OTHER hand I have seen other studies rate it as high as 4%!
A Survey of the Effects of the Minimum Wage on Prices

IE a $2 rise in minimum wage results in a SMALL rise in prices.

Feel free to back your fantasy up with some reliable data.

And while YOU may be a nice guy and all and want your employees to make reasonable money, I assure you, most corporations do not work that way. They will reduce pay lower and lower until they can no longer find people. Then they will hope we subsidize them with welfare. Nice! MOST labor is unskilled. And your skilled guys?

Hey you can work for $2 less, or go work at mcdonalds.

your arguments are unsubstantiated, and false.

You live in new york right? and you say your minimum wage is $5...
No. minimum wage there is over $9 currently So you're living in the past using those numbers.

You really dont appear to understand the economics of things. Now if you say "but less jobs"....yup. thats a issue, but not as large as one as you may believe. I've seen figures of a 1% loss for a 10% wage increase. And guess what-if those jobs arent paying enough that they are worth doing without everyone subsidizing those employees....then those jobs should not be done, and those employees should find something worthwhile doing.
My goodness. Where do you think our jobs have been going?

Just a hint for you: oversea and illegal immigrants.

By heavily outsourcing or moving jobs to overseas and using illegal immigrants, employers are able to keep the cost down while you are still making the true minimum wage, zero!

If you truly want to help the poor, teach them how to fish. If you want to screw them over, keep raising the minimum wage until the day that all their jobs are replaced with robots - yeah, they already have robots flipping burgers.
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Old 11-15-2013, 04:04 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 72,575,594 times
Reputation: 27566
Good Lord..all you need to do is work in FF for a mere 6-12 months and you become the senior worker and you'll most likely get a raise.

The problem is these min wage workers don't stay anywhere long enough to get that raise.

Do any of you frequent the same FF place ? I do. There's a McD's that I go to every other week for breakfast.
The staff there is constantly changing.

These places go through employees like no tomorrow.
My son became a senior employee at an upscale take out BBQ joint after being there for 1 year.

McDonald's has a 75% turnover rate.
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