The American Dream dead or alive? (global warming, ethical, Reagan, Christmas)

[TnHilltopper]

For 30 bucks an hour I will shovel the bovine excrement produced by all of Washington.

As much as illegal immigration contributes to the depressing of wages, the whole globalization of markets and economies also plays a large role I suspect. Many of those new factories in China are owned by American companies who are looking to maximize the profit to their share holders.

Originally Posted by ArizonaBear

Too; the influx of illegals has helped keep wages depressed------that bit about Americans/green card holders not wanting to work is BS. Show 'em the $$$ or at least; generous fringe benefits and methinks there would be lines of qualified applicants.

My motto is:

Shoveling horse crap for $6 an hour; yeah right-------shoveling horse crap for $30 an hour and watch the Yuppies line up.

[RedNC]

Originally Posted by silas777

Its a nice dream red but its not reality never has been never will, we are not guarenteed any of this. I guess it is good thing none of the people that started all those companys that would provide you your secure job for your entire working life, had that requirement because they certainly wouldnt have taken the risk to put it all together for you!!

Never said it was a guarantee. Prior to the global economy many factory and major corporations rewarded worker loyalty.
Take for example aerospace. My father and a couple uncles worked in aerospace their entire carriers. Although my uncles were able to stay in the same location, my father had to move to other states chasing the same type of job that was relocated several times. All of them were midlevel management or engineers, but they were able to retire with pensions and health care, long before the outsourcing began.

Now it wouldn’t be possible for anyone to do that, due to outsourcing, and the fact that these companies would play the lay off card to make sure that they wouldn’t have anyone actually collect on the promise of a pension.

Not everyone is cut out to run their own business. The example that someone successfully started their own business and by just working hard was successful leaves out the many thousands that did the same and failed.

I realize no one is entitled to a job and companies are in business to make money. That hasn’t changed since the beginning of time. What has changed and not for the better is businesses are chasing cheap labor and that isn’t good for Americas future.

Any skill you learn only stays sharp when you continue to use it. America was built on manufacturing, and building products that were better than everyone else’s. Products were improved, knowledge was passed on from one generation to the next. Without a manufacturing base America will lose it’s ability to create and advance. The new America will be left with a bunch of paper pushers and salesmen, that can’t figure out how to make or do anything else. That’s pathetic.

[silas777]

Originally Posted by RedNC

Never said it was a guarantee. Prior to the global economy many factory and major corporations rewarded worker loyalty.
Take for example aerospace. My father and a couple uncles worked in aerospace their entire carriers. Although my uncles were able to stay in the same location, my father had to move to other states chasing the same type of job that was relocated several times. All of them were midlevel management or engineers, but they were able to retire with pensions and health care, long before the outsourcing began.

Now it wouldn’t be possible for anyone to do that, due to outsourcing, and the fact that these companies would play the lay off card to make sure that they wouldn’t have anyone actually collect on the promise of a pension.

Not everyone is cut out to run their own business. The example that someone successfully started their own business and by just working hard was successful leaves out the many thousands that did the same and failed.

I realize no one is entitled to a job and companies are in business to make money. That hasn’t changed since the beginning of time. What has changed and not for the better is businesses are chasing cheap labor and that isn’t good for Americas future.

Any skill you learn only stays sharp when you continue to use it. America was built on manufacturing, and building products that were better than everyone else’s. Products were improved, knowledge was passed on from one generation to the next. Without a manufacturing base America will lose it’s ability to create and advance. The new America will be left with a bunch of paper pushers and salesmen, that can’t figure out how to make or do anything else. That’s pathetic.

Breifly , my brother in law worked in a mill in CA always bragged how wonderfully secure they had it . I on the other hand, in my 30 years of working life have never been employed for more than 4 years at any one place, one day the mill changed hands and long story short upper management got fired my brother in law who had never done anything else his whole entire life now had to start over. I on the other hand could go any where in the country and get a job doing half a dozen different things tommorow. However I chose to struggle sacrifice and lose alot of sleep and start my own company. You are right its not for everybody, but the moral of the story is security is over rated and many times loss of a job leads us to much more fullfilling things in life! PS. people in the ethanol business think that growing corn is going to become real profitable soon. Might be time buy some cheap acreage and a john deer!

[LM1]

Originally Posted by silas777

Might be time buy some cheap acreage and a john deer!

No such animal anymore. At least not suitable for growing corn.

[Starwalker Fallen Angel]

Me too Horse crap and chicken chit. And man oh man is it a lot of crap. There's over 600 chickens here and 9 horses. I don't get a dime. Well, a few fresh eggs.

I think a LOT falls onto the parents. We had the newest dolls out. My brothers had the newest camera's etc. But my momma had "times" for play time and we had our chores. We had our play time. In other words we had rules! In our home we had daddy if we broke the rules. Maybe it's because parents are lax today or maybe it's because Mom and Dad are at work.

[Magnulus]

The "American Dream" is physicly dead, in the sense that most people are finding it harder and harder to get: the single family home and a relatively secure job that pays enough so that we don't go to bed with worry. This was the way people have thought of the "American Dream", the "American Way of Life" that is suppossedly "non-negotiable". . Yet this myth about America gets told over and over and we measure everybody's successes US based on that. People are still holding onto it, even though the reality of America is changing, we have likely entered an age of disruptions and challenges when people are going to have to find a new paradigm of what it means to live a "good life".

I suspect there will be tension between the generations too. In my generation and those around my age, things like living at home and childlessness are getting more common, especially among the better educated and more risk-averse. Whereas in the past people like that were part of a war generation or had plentiful low/medium skill jobs that payed well, to help them get an early start in life, now days there are people approaching or exceeding their 30's still living at home, because costs are too high and wages too low. Older people often have trouble understanding this reality (baby boomers and the older Generation X), because it is not what they grew up with.

[Miker2069]

Originally Posted by RedNC

Never said it was a guarantee. Prior to the global economy many factory and major corporations rewarded worker loyalty.
Take for example aerospace. My father and a couple uncles worked in aerospace their entire carriers. Although my uncles were able to stay in the same location, my father had to move to other states chasing the same type of job that was relocated several times. All of them were midlevel management or engineers, but they were able to retire with pensions and health care, long before the outsourcing began.

Now it wouldn’t be possible for anyone to do that, due to outsourcing, and the fact that these companies would play the lay off card to make sure that they wouldn’t have anyone actually collect on the promise of a pension.

Not everyone is cut out to run their own business. The example that someone successfully started their own business and by just working hard was successful leaves out the many thousands that did the same and failed.

I realize no one is entitled to a job and companies are in business to make money. That hasn’t changed since the beginning of time. What has changed and not for the better is businesses are chasing cheap labor and that isn’t good for Americas future.

Any skill you learn only stays sharp when you continue to use it. America was built on manufacturing, and building products that were better than everyone else’s. Products were improved, knowledge was passed on from one generation to the next. Without a manufacturing base America will lose it’s ability to create and advance. The new America will be left with a bunch of paper pushers and salesmen, that can’t figure out how to make or do anything else. That’s pathetic.

Red, what would be your idea to compete in a global economy? Let's say for instance you ran GM, or you ran American Airlines and was competing with "new school" airlines like Southwest? I'll even submit that GM and American put out a quality product/service. The competitor also puts out at minimum a (perceived) product/service as good as yours- except he brings it to market for 20% lower than yours? Without going back and talking about the good people, the degrees they have, or how unfair competition may be, etc.- how do you propose to keep your company afloat in light of that reality. The free market by and large will choose the least expensive product given relative quality/features/performance. Perception is also reality (i.e., the Japanese make a better car) so you have that to contend with also.

Should your company lobby congress and recommend imposing trade sanctions against foreign competitors? Should we impose a high tariff on foreign imports (a penalty). In the world dynamics what ripple effect would that have on US exports? Should the government subsidize and/or bail because your product/service is crucial to the American way of life (i.e., the Airline industry)? Should we take military action against the nations of our biggest foreign competitor (it happens)? Do you look at the expense line item and see that the pension fund, insurances, plant overhead is a huge portion of your companies expense? Will you be the hero in the eyes of your workers and promise there will be no cuts knowing that without change the company simply won't exist inside of 10 years?

I'm absolutely serious and not poking fun- possibly there is something that hasn't been thought of in order to maintain profitable and maintain the pre-global economy format that many people want to keep (the good job with a single company). I've yet to hear it though.

You mentioned that the loss of manufacturing jobs would be/is bad for America. The same argument I'm sure was said about the "new era of manufacturing" as it displaced the once agrarian/farming based economy and people left the farm land for the mill.

I understand the emotional anguish that comes with doing a good job, being a good person, etc and then realizing it seemingly didn't help when your company can't compete. I mean there are several generations of people who were told, get a good education, get a good job with a good company- and that's it. Then the economy and markets of the world get broader and open. I can get a PhD in Russia for 30% of that same PhD in the US.

Interestingly enough in regards to my previous hypothetical question- there are pockets of companies who figured out how to survive the off-shoring and actually thrive in the US (however it looks nothing like the vast majority of old business mills/plants).

[mach]

If the generation coming up is so bad who raised them? Most people do not think their kids are bad or out of touch, but they are.

This country starts at the foundation "With the Kids" This should be the number one topic for the elections. It's easy for someone to beat their gums about giving more for college assistants or no child left behind. Lets see some action!

I wouldn't bash CEOs for making millions, or even getting $200mill once they tank the business. Blame the board members. That is who puts the guy in their. I hear that an average CEO makes what a professional ball player makes.

Well I'm done with my rant.

[spunky1]

Originally Posted by Magnulus

The "American Dream" is physicly dead, in the sense that most people are finding it harder and harder to get: the single family home and a relatively secure job that pays enough so that we don't go to bed with worry.

Are you a democrat?

[GregW]

The New American Dream is simple. Pick out really rich parents or win the megabucks lottery. Working smart and hard for success is what has died.

PS many of the other countries have import tariffs on our goods. It is beyond time to reciprocate and set up a tariff system that negates any foreign advantage on wages, environmental and governmental costs. Add a special tax on repatriated profits and we would again have a thriving industry. Hell, we could just have China pay the cost of protecting their shipping.

We really can restore the old American Dream but it would require, among other things, abandoning our profitless American Empire and the militarism that drives it. It is time to pay attention to ourselves and let the rest of the world go to hell on their own.