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Old 11-19-2013, 07:53 AM
 
16,711 posts, read 8,541,588 times
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OECD FAIL, Thread Fail
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Old 11-19-2013, 11:17 AM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
17,091 posts, read 13,645,027 times
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I think the poor folks having big screen tv, fancy phones and feeding the cat fresh salmon argument is probably fairly typical in most, if not all OECD countries. To hear some people talk over here, you would think those below the poverty line are better off than the rest of the population.

I'm assuming poor folks are likely to die younger, be less healthy etc, compared to the rest of the population, and that's the measure that really counts to me. Despite all the arguments here, I very much doubt that the poor in the US live longer than the upper middle class (lol) elsewhere in the OECD.

I'm only interested how the poorest in my country compare to the rest of the country. That will tell me a lot more about how the country is faring now and into the future. To start using really poor countries as a comparison, is worthless in my opinion.

Last edited by Joe90; 11-19-2013 at 11:29 AM..
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Old 11-19-2013, 11:22 AM
 
17,297 posts, read 25,662,432 times
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This is an issue, but it's a no-win situation for the United States.


Take a look at demographics, particularly in high-immigration areas of the country where we literally import poverty stricken people by the millions, who in turn have boatloads of kids who by definition are poor.


This is addition to the already-high trend of poor people in the US having kids at rates that outstrip better educated and more successful people.
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Old 11-19-2013, 11:33 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 60,532,892 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
I think the poor folks having big screen tv, fancy phones and feeding the cat fresh salmon argument is probably fairly typical in most, if not all OECD countries. To hear some people talk over here, you would think those below the poverty line are better off than the rest of the population.

I'm assuming poor folks are likely to die younger, be less healthy etc, compared to the rest of the population, and that's the measure that really counts to me. Despite all the arguments here, I very much doubt that the poor in the US live longer than the upper middle class (lol) elsewhere in the OECD.

I'm only interested how the poorest in my country compare to the rest of the country. That will tell me a lot more about how the country is faring now and into the future. To start using really poor countries as a comparison, is worthless in my opinion.
There of course is a lot more alcoholism and drug addiction and obesity and lack of exercise in our idle "poor" class, but remove those four factors and I would bet the lifespans are no different than the middle class.
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Old 11-19-2013, 11:39 AM
 
Location: On the Group W bench
5,576 posts, read 3,599,606 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
Note the definition:
Our children aren't going without basics, we are providing for them. Our standard of living is so high that our relative poverty exceeds the what most countries classify as middle class, or even upper middle class in some nations. Give. Me. A. Break.
Note that the title of the thread says "in the developed world."

Bringing up poverty in Africa etc. on this thread is purely disingenuous.

Also, it's the cons who love to boast of "American exceptionalism," yet they're perfectly happy to have people in dire poverty despite being the wealthiest nation on earth.

(Cue deflection post about "popping out babies" and "illegals…" :roll eyes
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Old 11-19-2013, 11:41 AM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
17,091 posts, read 13,645,027 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
There of course is a lot more alcoholism and drug addiction and obesity and lack of exercise in our idle "poor" class, but remove those four factors and I would bet the lifespans are no different than the middle class.
A lot aren't so idle though, working big hours for low wages. That's another aspect of ingrained poverty -many in the group don't have the mindset or skills to better themselves.
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Old 11-19-2013, 11:48 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
A lot aren't so idle though, working big hours for low wages. That's another aspect of ingrained poverty -many in the group don't have the mindset or skills to better themselves.
The ones who work most likely live as long as anyone else. Liberals need to stop thinking that work is bad. WOrk is good and noble. It's much better to stay busy and active than lay around.
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Old 11-19-2013, 11:54 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 60,532,892 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmqueen View Post
Note that the title of the thread says "in the developed world."

Bringing up poverty in Africa etc. on this thread is purely disingenuous.

Also, it's the cons who love to boast of "American exceptionalism," yet they're perfectly happy to have people in dire poverty despite being the wealthiest nation on earth.

(Cue deflection post about "popping out babies" and "illegals…" :roll eyes
You cannot ignore the fact that the bulk of our poverty is imported from the third world. They bring all their third world issues with them, including young teen pregnancy and high birth rates that will have them outnumber the taxpayers in no time.
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Old 11-19-2013, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 72,370,071 times
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The government needs to start putting a value on each government program.

These people may be making less than FPL but what is the value of the programs they are enrolled in ?
What if they get $600/month in SNAP..that's $7200 a year right there in one single subsidy.
What if they get $50/month in heating assistance...that's $600 a year
Free breakfast/lunch for 1 kid is $5/day..$25/week..$100/month..$1000 for a 10 month school year.
Right there is near $8,000 per year.
And we have 83 various programs for them.

Why isn't the monetary value of these subsidies added to their income ? That gives the true "relative value".
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Old 11-19-2013, 12:02 PM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
17,091 posts, read 13,645,027 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
The ones who work most likely live as long as anyone else. Liberals need to stop thinking that work is bad. WOrk is good and noble. It's much better to stay busy and active than lay around.
I think they are likely to live shorter lives regardless of whether they work or not, that's a real measure of poverty.

I don't know anyone who thinks work is bad. Even those with an aversion to it, admit to their own shortcomings, rather than thinking work is bad.
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