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So if the people working there were robots who needed oiling its ok to send the bill off to the tax payer. As long as the needs are classified as neccesities there is no human element in the issue. Welcome to the age of the machine where the machine has more rights then the individual.
That oil is required to get the machine to do the job tomorrow. The paycheck provided gets the employee to do the job tomorrow. If you want them to be paid like machines, would you be satisfied with $500 up front (purchase) followed by a payment every six months or annually (maintenance)?
A machine does not get paid for its hourly work. It does not get paid for overtime. It does not have limits on weekly or daily hours. It can't make the choice to quit and move elsewhere for a better job. On the other side, it works constantly, doesn't call in sick, doesn't say "that's not my job" etc.
Since you want people to be paid based on what they need, does McDonalds need to pay people more that have kids? Less if they have a spouse with a good job? More if they drive further to work? They pay based on what it costs to have someone perform the job. Those people voluntarily accept that job at that rate of pay. If they're not satisfied - good, that should be motivation to excel and move out of that position rather than the point where they look at the owner of the business and say they're not going to do anything additional or better but they want more money.
I love watching leftists spew their bile about fairness. How is it fair to force a company to pay someone more than they're actually worth or subsidize them through some tax penalty because they're only capable of performing unskilled menial labor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU
I love watching right-wingers try to rationalize their preference for egoistic avarice. But what we love isn't what this thread is about. But heck - it was an unique attempt to dodge and evade my comments about exploitation of the power imbalance in the labor marketplace, against which you evidently have no legitimate defense.
No one said that. Y'all should stop working so hard to avoid moral repudiation for that which you support by responding to things no one has said. If you cannot respond to what I actually said, then you'd be better off saying nothing. At least that way I'd have no reason to respond pointing out your evasion.
Dodging? Evading? IBTFL.
Was there an answer to the question somewhere in there or just more lefty hot air spin?
No one said that. Y'all should stop working so hard to avoid moral repudiation for that which you support by responding to things no one has said. If you cannot respond to what I actually said, then you'd be better off saying nothing. At least that way I'd have no reason to respond pointing out your evasion.
You said "Fairness is a qualitative aspect, a reflection of the application of ethical principles, something that the right-wing perspective lacks."
So let me rephrase: It is astonishing to me that you would allege a lack of ethical principles in the right wing perspective, when that perspective requires one to be of value and service to others in order to prosper. That's all I'm saying. You think prosperity ought to be based on something other than the usefulness rendered to the rest of society.
I love watching right-wingers try to rationalize their preference for egoistic avarice. But what we love isn't what this thread is about. But heck - it was an unique attempt to dodge and evade my comments about exploitation of the power imbalance in the labor marketplace, against which you evidently have no legitimate defense.
No one said that. Y'all should stop working so hard to avoid moral repudiation for that which you support by responding to things no one has said. If you cannot respond to what I actually said, then you'd be better off saying nothing. At least that way I'd have no reason to respond pointing out your evasion.
Don't worrie dearie-some day you'll be ready to move up from McDonalds to say...Pizza Hut.
I love watching leftists spew their bile about fairness. How is it fair to force a company to pay someone more than they're actually worth or subsidize them through some tax penalty because they're only capable of performing unskilled menial labor?
It's also a naive perspective to think that if you suddenly forced employers to pay uneducated, unskilled workers more that everything else would remain static. That's the same faulty thinking government often makes which is why we so often hear about unintended consequences.
The Human Employee - has a choice to work there. They are not chained to a counter and forced to work there, they are not OWNED by the company. They are not the responsibility of the Company.
The Non-Human Robot - has no choice in anything, they are owned by the company, they are the responsibility of the company.
The Individual has a RIGHT NOT to work for the company.
The Non-Human Robot has NO rights.
If a machine or robot is a choice decision in order to provide a function for a Co
and is available,
the company is responcible for the functioning maintenance of the machine or robot.
If an individual is a choice decision in order to provide a function for a Co
and is available,
the Company is responcible for the functioning maintenance ( normal nessecities, heat food) of the individual.
availability on behalf of the employee has nothing to do with the issue.
The choice is all about the wish's of the employer as demonstrated, they are the holders of resource. Welcome to the age of the machine where machines have more rights then the individual.
an arguement is required for a wage of 1 dollar an hour alongside good profit, thats the problem, the min wage has nothing to do with ethic in the solution.
Last edited by alexcanter; 11-20-2013 at 07:59 PM..
Was there an answer to the question somewhere in there or just more lefty hot air spin?
Was there a question somewhere in there or just more right-wing Kool Aid? Face it: You don't have a response to the challenges put to your perspectives in this thread that can be tied back to recognized standards of moral behavior.
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcopolo
You think prosperity ought to be based on something other than the usefulness rendered to the rest of society.
No I don't think that. And you know that. You know I haven't said anything about "prosperity" with regard to the most vulnerable in our society. The fact that you have to lie about what I've said says more clearly that you understand that you don't have a legitimate response to what I did say than anything. Let me know when you are ready to chat about what I actually said instead of your ridiculous corruption of it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake
Don't worrie dearie-some day you'll be ready to move up from McDonalds to say...Pizza Hut.
Thanks for making clear that the right-wing perspective is reliant on self-deceptions right-wingers have to tell themselves about the nature of those people who hold the morally deficient right-wing perspectives up to repudiation.
My very first job was McDonalds. I believe the wage was under $2 an hour ... can't remember exactly. I stayed with the company for about 1.5 yrs.
It was a good job. I learned "systems", how to work as a team, how to work with consumers, how to treat customers.
I also learned that that was not what I wanted to do the rest of my life so I worked hard to move up and out. To this day I thank McDonalds for giving me the chance to learn some important skills. Skills I still use today, training that I still remember today and use.
I cringe when I go into most McDonalds today, you can see the lack of involvement in the faces of most who work there. They don't care about the company paying them, they don't care about the customer, they just want their shift to be over and get a check. Most don't deserve any more then minimum wage, because that is what they give the company, minimum effort.
My very first job was McDonalds. I believe the wage was under $2 an hour ... can't remember exactly. I stayed with the company for about 1.5 yrs.
It was a good job. I learned "systems", how to work as a team, how to work with consumers, how to treat customers.
I also learned that that was not what I wanted to do the rest of my life so I worked hard to move up and out. To this day I thank McDonalds for giving me the chance to learn some important skills. Skills I still use today, training that I still remember today and use.
I cringe when I go into most McDonalds today, you can see the lack of involvement in the faces of most who work there. They don't care about the company paying them, they don't care about the customer, they just want their shift to be over and get a check. Most don't deserve any more then minimum wage, because that is what they give the company, minimum effort.
Fox news tried to humiliate the needs of the good hard working people with this stuff as well. The adult world is a reality.
Last edited by alexcanter; 11-21-2013 at 06:53 AM..
Was there a question somewhere in there or just more right-wing Kool Aid? Face it: You don't have a response to the challenges put to your perspectives in this thread that can be tied back to recognized standards of moral behavior.
No I don't think that. And you know that. You know I haven't said anything about "prosperity" with regard to the most vulnerable in our society. The fact that you have to lie about what I've said says more clearly that you understand that you don't have a legitimate response to what I did say than anything. Let me know when you are ready to chat about what I actually said instead of your ridiculous corruption of it.
Thanks for making clear that the right-wing perspective is reliant on self-deceptions right-wingers have to tell themselves about the nature of those people who hold the morally deficient right-wing perspectives up to repudiation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Roma
I love watching leftists spew their bile about fairness. How is it fair to force a company to pay someone more than they're actually worth or subsidize them through some tax penalty because they're only capable of performing unskilled menial labor?
There's the question that you've been evading. Will you answer it now or can we look forward to more spin and hot air as we hear about your lame version of what people's morals should be?
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